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View Full Version : [Contest Entry] Robonova gets a hand.



MYKL
02-11-2008, 02:24 PM
*Deep Bow* Hello friends,

My entry for your parousal, a hand for a RN-1.

Here are pictures and a video shot with my uber-clear cellphone... Heh...

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_0910.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_0909.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_0910.jpg (http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_0910.jpg)

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_0909.jpg (http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_0909.jpg)

http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/?action=view&current=02-11-08_1016.flv (http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/?action=view&current=02-11-08_1016.flv)

Its shown in the pictures next to the forearm bracket of a Robonova-1 for size comaprison. This version is just the skeleton. I mean to flesh it ouut a bit more and make the movements a bit more fluid. I don't know if I'll add this one to my RN as it seems to be a bit large.

What do you think of this newest version so far?

Matt
02-11-2008, 02:34 PM
I like it, the action looks pretty smooth. Movement looks very realistic. If you plan to use it for real grabbing I would oppose the thumb a bit more. Right now it looks like it might be a little too perpendicular.

BTW - Welcome to the community!

Dave
02-11-2008, 02:38 PM
That's awesome. I agree that it would be tough to actually attach that to a Robonova, but it's still awesome. What's it made out of?

DresnerRobotics
02-11-2008, 02:49 PM
Hey Mykl, good to see you over on this side =)

Mykl and I are talking about the possibility of using his hand-design concepts to build a rugged 3 fingered "Johnny 5" gripper just like the movie version had.

Really cool stuff though, you might think about using muscle wire to pull the tendons if they're just for show, however to pick things up you'll need a more powerful solution.


PS: You should blog or post about your Supernova project, I'm sure the guys here would get a kick out of it.

JonHylands
02-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I've actually been planning on building something very similar to this for a larger version of BrainBot (RX-64 based). We're going to print all the pieces on the 3D printer, and the current plan is to have a 3-fingered hand with 5 DOF in the hand itself, plus another 2 for the wrist. Last year I was walking through a liquidation store and saw this, so I had to buy it:

http://www.discoverthis.com/smartlab-skeletal-hand.html

- Jon

Matt
02-11-2008, 03:30 PM
That's awesome Jon. One of the veeeeery first things I built as a young dorky kid was an animatronic hand like that. I did the old wire through stiff plastic tubing trick where you cut out triangle notches to make bend points for the joints. It sorta worked...

jdolecki
02-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Some inspriation for your hand.

http://www.shadowrobot.com/

MYKL
02-11-2008, 03:52 PM
I like it, the action looks pretty smooth. Movement looks very realistic. If you plan to use it for real grabbing I would oppose the thumb a bit more. Right now it looks like it might be a little too perpendicular.

BTW - Welcome to the community!

Thank you for the welcome. There are a couple of things about this model that were a bit off. The thumb position was one and the proportional length ofthe fingers is another. The way the thumb is currently positioned the hand can pick up water bottles and pill bottles. I shoud post a video of it actually manipulating something... I am going to add some pads to the inside surfaces to increase grip and I may adjust the thumb angle a bit but right now the position enables some good emotive positions (Thumbs up, Victory even pinching...)


That's awesome. I agree that it would be tough to actually attach that to a Robonova, but it's still awesome. What's it made out of?

I do not think the attachment will be that difficult. I want to paint it up to resemble the anodizing on the stock parts. It is made out of Vinyl tubing, Rubber Stainless wire and glue.

Thank you also for the Kudos.


Hey Mykl, good to see you over on this side =)

Mykl and I are talking about the possibility of using his hand-design concepts to build a rugged 3 fingered "Johnny 5" gripper just like the movie version had.

Really cool stuff though, you might think about using muscle wire to pull the tendons if they're just for show, however to pick things up you'll need a more powerful solution.


PS: You should blog or post about your Supernova project, I'm sure the guys here would get a kick out of it.

I will post the Supernova here sporting one of these hands! Until then I'll post it attached to a standard Robonova. I'll call it Quasi-Robo... Heh...

I think the design and function of your J5 gripper will be much siimpler and stronger.

Thank you for the well come.


I've actually been planning on building something very similar to this for a larger version of BrainBot (RX-64 based). We're going to print all the pieces on the 3D printer, and the current plan is to have a 3-fingered hand with 5 DOF in the hand itself, plus another 2 for the wrist. Last year I was walking through a liquidation store and saw this, so I had to buy it:

http://www.discoverthis.com/smartlab-skeletal-hand.html

- Jon

Hello Jon,

I actually had a version of that hand. It was robotic looking rather than biological. The thumb has no ability to move but the idea of the tendons and joints led to experimentation that led to the hand I've posted here.


That's awesome Jon. One of the veeeeery first things I built as a young dorky kid was an animatronic hand like that. I did the old wire through stiff plastic tubing trick where you cut out triangle notches to make bend points for the joints. It sorta worked...

I personally think that more of the tech used in the animatronic industry should and will find use in the hobby robotics field. To build a machine that mimics biological life is what most of our goals are. Its what turns heads. I think it would even be cool to build and exoskeleton that was covered by a sculpted body/skin to resemble a biological life form. They would surly be fun to watch toting weapons or wrestling hand to hand.

Here is a video of the thing actually gripping something(s):

http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/?action=view&current=02-11-08_1417.flv

MYKL
02-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Some inspriation for your hand.

http://www.shadowrobot.com/

Hello jdolecki,

The Shadow project hand is a beautiful example of what can be accomplished with out-of-the box thinking.

Its a bit large for a Hobby robot.

The actuators require a space eating amount of valves and air supply. If I was building a full sized Anthropomorphic arm I'd go there. I just wanna give my RN some humaniod personality.

I've actually got some plans for an actuator that functions remarkably like theirs but, that is another project.

asbrandsson
02-11-2008, 05:55 PM
Hello,

I guess that I should of used the search function better before I posted about this thing in another topic.

Asbrandsson

MYKL
02-12-2008, 11:06 AM
I switched the direction of the thumb a bit and it works much more accuratly now.

So I mounted it to the RN-1 and it looked like... Well... this:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/02-11-08_1844.jpg

While the hand can pick up many things at this size I am going to construct a smaller version with stouter digits. It is 'cute' (wife's sentiment) in a cartoonish way but I do not think my 'bot is much intimidating as a knuuckle dragging Quasi-Robo...

Thank you for the Well come Mr. Asbrandsson!

^_^

asbrandsson
02-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Hello,

It is a little big. What about doing something with only three fingers, or two fingers and a thumb?

Asbrandsson

kdwyer
02-12-2008, 08:09 PM
Yeah, it is big (for RN) but I also appreciate how tough it is to make small sturdy parts - not impossible, but real tough. I tried something similar using quarter-inch thick plastic boards, and wasted several boards trying to get it done. I was using garage-quality power tools (great for cars, picnic tables etc.) If I win the lottery I'll get a Sherline CNC milling machine and some aluminum stock. Now that's the way to make small sturdy parts!
The only drawback I see with your effort is that it looks a bit out of scale with the RN. But the slightly larger size means it isn't as fragile as a smaller end effector.

I got it! Don't make a smaller hand, make a BIGGER ROBOT!

DresnerRobotics
02-12-2008, 10:15 PM
Ask him about his supernova plans.... (i wont spoil it :P )

MYKL
02-13-2008, 11:36 AM
I plan on combining the two RN-1 kits I have into a stronger, faster version with many more DOF.

First I'm becoming one with the mechanical limits of the original. Then once I've ASSIMLATED it I'll deconstruct it and make it my own.

I love being able to finaly have a GUI that makes it simple for me to make the servos obey...

I am using light weight but tough plastics and rubber to construct its hands. It won't be able to pick up a six pack and bring it too me but I would like it to have the ability to grab a competitor and bend it to my will.

Muahahaha... *cough*

Or at least point and laugh with those that fall for it.

^_^

SN96
02-27-2008, 05:34 PM
I want that hand... Hand it over!

MYKL
02-27-2008, 05:49 PM
If you think it would work for your purposes I would gladly send it to you.

Its a bit big. I would share some ideas about actuating it with you if you wished to try it out.

And it wobbles a bit. My newer versions will be much more compact and stable but other obligations have slowed down the creative process...

But I think it would look pretty cool with what you have accomplished.

^_^

Alex
02-28-2008, 10:10 AM
Hey MYKL, do you happen to have any videos of this in action connected to a Robonova?

MYKL
02-28-2008, 11:19 AM
I have only posted pictures of the Gianormous version attached to a RN-1. I am currently taking all I've come up with and rebuilding it in a more appropriate size for the tiny man-bot. I also had to work out some issues with torque. I want to use micro servos to actuate the digits. I have figured it all out and now am very close to realizing the next step in the RN-1 adaptation.

I am really looking forward to creating my own routines incorperating the little hands as I feel they add a lot of humanity to a 'bot.

^_^

asbrandsson
02-28-2008, 11:31 PM
Hello,

I think that this is a really cool thing I hope that you win this month.

Asbrandsson

SN96
02-29-2008, 05:48 PM
I am really looking forward to creating my own routines incorperating the little hands as I feel they add a lot of humanity to a 'bot.

^_^

I completely agree. I would love to see one made from aluminum! Your the "hand" specialist, I'm the "head" specialist. :veryhappy:

MYKL
02-29-2008, 08:03 PM
You could paint the one I made aluminum to match your bot. It wouldn't be too hard to constuct one out of aluminum actually...

It would be a bit heavier though.

SN96
03-01-2008, 09:43 AM
I say aluminum :veryhappy: the extra weight would be fine for me considering I'm using the Linxmotion little grippers, which are bulky, and my guess is that the weight when compared to the little gripper it would be close.

Do you have a CNC machine? How do you cut your parts?

MYKL
03-03-2008, 09:39 AM
I use an X-acto saw and mitre box.

It'll cut aluminum like butta'

^_^

SN96
03-04-2008, 05:36 PM
I use an X-acto saw and mitre box.

It'll cut aluminum like butta'

^_^

Like butta you say? Well I hear some aluminum stock calling your name... :veryhappy:

asbrandsson
03-07-2008, 08:29 PM
Hello,

Do you have some kind of shareable design for the hand. I understand that you might not want your design to get out everwhere. But I think that I could make some fairly fast and consistant with a CNC mill?

Asbrandsson

MYKL
03-10-2008, 11:17 AM
You could definately produce the hands quicker on a mill. Perhaps I'll work out a flat pattern and we'll see what you think about a trade of services...

Do you have an RN-1?

I've finished up a plan for adding rotating hips to mine that involves some new plates.

^_^

asbrandsson
03-10-2008, 11:15 PM
Hello,

Most definately. I bought a set of grippers and double knees for it not to long ago. I bought the CNC mill to make custom parts for my Robonova. I have not had a lot of time to program it lately, but from what I see I will have to upgrade some of the servos in it already. Especially in the hips and shoulders.

I would certainly trade you work.

Asbrandsson

MYKL
06-24-2008, 02:04 PM
Here are some pictures of how far along I am on the (re)design of my bot:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/leg-step1.jpg

You can see that the bracket that come with the RN-1 are OEM colour and the ones I am in the process of developing are silvery-greyish. The design is missing all controlling electronics, batteries, cameras, fastening hardware, wireing and harness, smaller feet, spring loaded suspension, and exterior body coverings. The hands are being represented by true to size marker models while I work out the geometry of the limbs and waist rotation/flexation. I'll be modeling up the electrics next.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/DrageSjel/sn1-step.jpg

It looks a bit ungainly huh...

^_^

crabfu
06-28-2008, 01:35 AM
Man that's just awesome, can't wait to see it in action!

-Crabfu

MYKL
06-30-2008, 02:19 PM
Thank you very much. That means a lot to me coming from a designer as talented as yourself. I hope I can program it to be at least a fraction as graceful as the humaniod gaits I've seen your bots do.

I keep getting distracted with other projects and marriage and un/re-employment.

This version seems to me to be good for the functionality I want to see come from this bot. I don't expect cartwheels and headstands or splits at that point but I can't really do those things either. I do expect a smoother faster true walk from the beastie though.

^_^

crabfu
06-30-2008, 02:40 PM
Thanks for the kind words, but I'm not just saying it... your hands are really impressive, and something that I've been thinking of tackling for a while now. The execution seems flawless, and looks like it will add some life to the little guy. Animation/motions are all about subtle details that people don't "notice", instead they "feel". Adding hands, even very subtle movements in the fingers as it walks and move about, makes a huge difference in the end.

Can't wait to see more :)

-Crabfu

MYKL
07-07-2008, 08:39 AM
I agree, It's the little details that make thing more 'alive', dynamic and interesting.

I've worked out a different skeletal structure and done a simple paper model of it this last weeks end. It promises to be stronger, simpler and more compliant for gripping off shapes.

I have a lot on my plate but I plan on finishing the next adaptation by this next week end.

MYKL
07-09-2008, 02:30 PM
My paper model was a great idea and the new configuration looks great. I've decided to make this thing as functional as I've dreamed because in all reality I'll only be using this bot at home for research and entertainment. I am drawing up plans to include hydraulic muscles in the forearms with which to actuate my newest digital devices. If/when the muscles and hands perform to my liking I'll move on to the wrist/elbow DOFs and decide upon which actuators will be incorperated there. I may not post for a bit as I've decided to produce pictures for each step instead of just talking up a storm.

You are all very inspiring.

Be well...

^_^

ScuD
07-09-2008, 03:51 PM
Wow... just wow.. awesome work ! you could build a little dirty harry with two of those, just needs a little hat :veryhappy: oh no wait that's not dirty harry... hmbrm, never mind..


My 'current' project is something in the likes, here's a lil render:
http://users.pandora.be/svendecock/robot/hand.PNG
Bit bigger though, It's about 10" from the tip of the fingers to the wrist, with stretched hands.
But now i've bought all that metal, started some work on it, and found this dang forum with its damn mech competition thing and all these massive amounts of interesting tidbits...

Ah well.. someday..

MYKL
07-09-2008, 04:56 PM
Your assembly looks awesome. Are you planning on running the actuator wire loop to each joint or are you planning a slip type joint like on my little grippers?

What kind of actuator are you planning to use BTW?

Its way too easy to get distracted here. I have a few unfinished projects at home: my high DOF grippers, my supernova/mech, a Johnny 5 gripper, a missile salvo and a servo driven hydraulic muscle actuation system.

^_^

ScuD
07-10-2008, 02:00 AM
There'll be a bowden cable running from the tip of the finger to the end, enabling it to be pulled down. On the other side though, i'm not sure yet. I'd either need torsion springs on each joint, or i could route another bowden cable opposite to the first and spring-load that one (which has my preference).

The thing with the torsion springs is i'd need several strenghts, and i think the double cable thing would work smoother.

Not sure on actuation yet, i'm thinking just routing the cables outward so you can sorta wear it like a glove.. either that or finally put some of those teeny weeny SMC pistons to work i have laying around.

And indeed, getting distracted is something you almost can't avoid around here..

rpedro
07-19-2008, 11:04 PM
very cool... and promising... keep us all posted...

MYKL
07-21-2008, 08:50 AM
There'll be a bowden cable running from the tip of the finger to the end, enabling it to be pulled down. On the other side though, i'm not sure yet. I'd either need torsion springs on each joint, or i could route another bowden cable opposite to the first and spring-load that one (which has my preference).

The thing with the torsion springs is i'd need several strenghts, and i think the double cable thing would work smoother.

Not sure on actuation yet, i'm thinking just routing the cables outward so you can sorta wear it like a glove.. either that or finally put some of those teeny weeny SMC pistons to work i have laying around.

And indeed, getting distracted is something you almost can't avoid around here..

What are you thinking of using for the skeleton? PVC and styrene/acrylic comes in a ton of structural shapes for model builders. It is light weight, has a fairly high strength to weight ratio, is easy to work with and is not prohibitivly expensive or hard to find.

I think you could use a lot of what I've come up with to finish your design. I'm thinking about posting a tutorial on how I make mine so that all of you might be able to use some of my design to further your own. I want to make them personally for people I just don't seem to be givin the time...

The joints and the way I have them returm to shape are pretty simple yet I haven't seen anyone use the same technique. The cool thing is that if a lot of persons saw and used what I've done I could learn more as they build and make better versions.

Be well friends.


^_^

ScuD
07-21-2008, 01:35 PM
Actually I'm building this design as an exercise in metalworking, I'm using aluminum and brass.
I've got all the metal in the back and I've turned/milled most parts for about two fingers, but after that I got stuck when the bioloid kit arrived...

Time sharing between work/social life/robotics and programming isn't one of my strongest points...


The part i'm "stuck" with on my design is the opening of the hand.
I'd either use torsion springs, which I'd most likely have to wind myself, or use a double pulley/double tendon system so that the top tendon always pulls back on the finger, but i'm not sure if that'll work unless I can get the different parts of the fingers have a certain friction at the joints.