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tom_chang79
02-18-2008, 02:26 AM
I want to start the ultimate bioloid humanoid thread. I invite all you Bioloid owners to share your experience with the bot, be it the build, servos, electronics, software, and etc.. I'm particularly interested in the humanoid configuration since mine is going to be permanently in that configuration, but I'm going to try to keep this as a general Bioloid thread...

I want to foremost share a few of my experience with this kit:

1) THERE ARE LOTS OF SCREWS (excuse my caps :tongue:), prepare to spend a ton of time with the screw driver. I thought I would be finished building this in a day, but it has been day 2 of my build and I'm still only 90% done. Perhaps some of you may do it faster, but I found some of the instructions a little confusing and lacking information on some of the steps. It's good to read ahead of the step you're on so you won't be suprised by what comes next...

2) Be careful of over torque on the screw that goes through the nut that is inserted into the lugs of the servos... If you start screwing these and you feel a resistance before the screw head is already seating into the chamfer, you should immediately back it out and not over torque it. I over torque a few of these screws only to have the nut that is captured inside the servo lug spin freely, therefore stripping the seating:sad:. I kludged a fix for this by CA-glued the nut into the lugs to have it hold just enough for the screw to hold it into the lug as you tighten it.

3) I found myself needing a vise. A vise with jaws large enough to hold two servo in a perpendicular fashion. When attaching these kinds of pairs, you have to pinch them together VERY VERY tight since there are bus wires being sandwiched between them. I believe stripping of some of the lugs (as mentioned in 2) above) were due to my hands not being able to pinch these two servos hard enough for the screws to line up with its respective nuts correctly...

4) You can always use more lugs then instructed. I found myself using 3 lugs to attach that side of a particular servo instead of the two that was instructed if the bracket allowed it. I think the weight difference is negligible compared to the gain in structural integrity.

5) Build this in good lighting! This tip can be applied to anything you do on the bench. This is especially true when you are trying to look into crevices of a black object.

------------------------------------------------------------
Overall, the build was pretty smooth. I do have questions for you Bioloid owners whom already have been quite acquainted with the humanoid configuration:

1) How did you guys/gals do the wiring? I found routing the wiring in the final steps a challenge and this is where I'm stuck. The instruction manual leaves a little more to be desired when instructing this portion of the final assembly...

2) I have an extra AX-12+ servo that I mounted in the crotch area of the bot for a waist rotation. How did you do the wiring when this servo blocks the path of the wires for the hip servos?

3) I've read on other threads that the latest Bioloid software off of Robotis' site is riddled with viruses. Has this issue been resolved? Should I risk installing the latest software from Robotis or stick with version 1.09 that came with the kit?

-------------------------------------------------------------

I've seen other threads on protecting the wiring but some of them looks very tight. Especially around the knees... Any tips from you Bioloid vets are welcome...

Well, I hope to see some replies from you Bioloid Humanoid owners soon! :D

siempre.aprendiendo
02-18-2008, 05:06 AM
1) How did you guys/gals do the wiring? I found routing the wiring in the final steps a challenge and this is where I'm stuck. The instruction manual leaves a little more to be desired when instructing this portion of the final assembly...

2) I have an extra AX-12+ servo that I mounted in the crotch area of the bot for a waist rotation. How did you do the wiring when this servo blocks the path of the wires for the hip servos?

3) I've read on other threads that the latest Bioloid software off of Robotis' site is riddled with viruses. Has this issue been resolved? Should I risk installing the latest software from Robotis or stick with version 1.09 that came with the kit?



I built the humanoid but a like hexapods a lot more :), and now I'm playing with this (http://www.siempreaprendiendo.es/images/antoneal302.jpg) "ant" creation. There is a low quality video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YWAhO7Jm4U) test.

1) I did the wiring studying carefully the manual and some videos or photos

2) I have no idea, I don't have an extra AX-12+ :)

3) I downloaded and installed it last Saturday and now there aren't warning of virus.

JonHylands
02-18-2008, 05:35 AM
2) Be careful of over torque on the screw that goes through the nut that is inserted into the lugs of the servos... If you start screwing these and you feel a resistance before the screw head is already seating into the chamfer, you should immediately back it out and not over torque it. I over torque a few of these screws only to have the nut that is captured inside the servo lug spin freely, therefore stripping the seating:sad:. I kludged a fix for this by CA-glued the nut into the lugs to have it hold just enough for the screw to hold it into the lug as you tighten it.



That's probably a mistake.

http://www.huv.com/AX-12-Plate.png

What happens is the nut gets pushed back out of its recess, and the small screws that are normally used can't reach it anymore. What to do in that case is to use one of the longer screws - you feed it through the hole, and tighten it up enough to pull the nut back into its recess. Then you remove the long screw and use the regular one. You have to be careful not to push hard on the screws for these holes until you're sure they are engaged in the nut, and even being careful sometimes it happens...

I guarantee you didn't strip the recess - that plastic is incredibly strong.

- Jon

tom_chang79
02-18-2008, 06:49 AM
Thanks for the tip Jon, what I meant was the lugs on the side or the body of the servo, not on the servo horns themselves. That part is easily stripped if you over torque the screws. The tolerance seems to be quite wide on this portion of the servo casing since when I slip a N1 nut into these lugs, sometimes they slip right in and sometimes they are very tight. Occasionally, the tightness is attributed to the flashing that was left inside these "slots."

I've stripped about four of them on four different servos already, all on the servos that was part of the perpendicular setup like on the thighs and the ankle of the humanoid. I think this is why I was thinking of using a vise (which I don't have at home) to secure the two servos and then insert the bolts that holds the bracket and the servos so that the screws will always go down smoothly...

I just finished my humanoid and about to go into the programming. I probably need to clean up or guard the wiring after my initial run, I'm a little worried about some of the wiring around the thigh and knee servos since the C-brackets are hinging right onto one of the bus wires...

JonHylands
02-18-2008, 10:33 AM
Wow, I've never stripped one of those either. I tighten everything really tight also, because I know people have had trouble with screws loosening, but I haven't.

You should check your wires that go between those two servos very carefully - you might be damaging it. There is a way to route the wire such that it goes together reasonably easy - I've put together probably 20 or 30 of those dual-servo joints so far, with no troubles like that.

Okay, I pulled apart one of mine, and took a few hi-res pictures - hopefully this will help. They are really big (2048 x 1536), so you might want to save them and look at the with a different program...

http://www.huv.com/Bioloid-Ankle-01.jpg

This first one shows how the wire should be routed from the outside. Make sure the three wires stay flat where they are against the servos.

http://www.huv.com/Bioloid-Ankle-02.jpg

This shows the inside - note how each set of three are flat, and route between the gray bracket and the round pivot point.

http://www.huv.com/Bioloid-Ankle-03.jpg

Finally, this shows what it looks like as its going together. One of my wires has gotten "nicked" by the edge of the other servo nut mount, but it still works fine.

- Jon

asbrandsson
02-18-2008, 11:36 AM
Hello,

I just bought a bioloid kit off of E-bay. Is there a gyro or Gyro system that goes with the Bioloid system.

Asbrandsson

tom_chang79
02-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the awesome hi res pics... I think I would have to check those to make sure that it isn't getting knicked liked that...

For the life of me, I can't figure out how to program this darn thing... How do you make this thing walk? I'm still trying to get familiar with Robotis' software suite... Guess I'll fiddle around with it...

asbrandson, I think JonHylands' site sells some addon boards for the Bioloid. One of them is an IMU if I remember.

Jon, can you post your link on here?

DresnerRobotics
02-18-2008, 03:39 PM
Figure out the 'catch and play' style software, where you pose the robot and take a screenshot of the servo positions... and I'm sure walking will be easy.

JonHylands
02-18-2008, 03:54 PM
asbrandson, I think JonHylands' site sells some addon boards for the Bioloid. One of them is an IMU if I remember.

Jon, can you post your link on here?

Yeah, I sell a 6-axis IMU for the Bioloid. Its not a trivial thing to use, like on some of the humanoids, since it is not modifying servo pulses, but at least one person has used it with a CM-5 and claims to have gotten worth from it to help balance. If you're programming a more powerful CPU like an onboard gumstix or hammer, then it would definitely help.

http://www.huvrobotics.com

I'll be getting my new foot pressure sensor boards available within the next 2-3 weeks, and those will definitely be usable from the CM-5 to help balance (see http://www.huv/com/blog for some details on my new boards).

- Jon

tom_chang79
02-18-2008, 05:20 PM
Figure out the 'catch and play' style software, where you pose the robot and take a screenshot of the servo positions... and I'm sure walking will be easy.

I thought the software suite included a "default" walking profile for the humanoid?

Alex
02-18-2008, 05:34 PM
It does include default programs for all of the robots that you can build. It's on the CD though, I'm not sure where though. I don't have it around me though, sorry:( Maybe someone else can chime in on the location?

tom_chang79
02-18-2008, 06:45 PM
I've followed the steps towards the end of the build instruction where it starts to tell you how to load the checkassembly program and also the demohumanoid program.

I've tried to load both of the programs and none of them seems to work. I got this error message from my checkassembly program:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/5/6/5/error_screen_969024_thumb.jpg (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=143&c=newimages)

I don't understand the error messages. It found 19 of my servos ok, but when I press play, it just gives me this error.

When I downloaded the demohumanoid program, I press play and the only thing that happens is the right arm slowly crawls up and the waist starts to rotate towards the left, from the bot's point of view.

I thought the servo ID 19 wouldn't have anything to do with these demo programs since it's not even called out... Strange how this servo is engaged...

Can anyone help me?:confused:

tom_chang79
02-18-2008, 07:09 PM
Ok, I've solved that error message problem. It seems that my 19th servo was causing the woes... I read on one of srobot's threads that he had to disconnect the 19th servo for the CM-5 to operate correctly. Seems like the default ID of the extra AX-12+ servo I bought (if it was programmed with a default ID) was probably causing a bus contention, therefore generating those errors.

I was able to run the check assembly program in behavior control and was able to cycle through all the LEDs of all 18 servos. I then press the start button as instructed and was able to get the robot to go into the alignment pose (the "T") pose).

I guess I'll have to program the ID of the 19th servo separately. For now, I'm moving onto the Demo Humanoid program.

One question remaining, I don't recall where I saw it, but I remember seeing that you have to set the PC's baud rate to be 57k bps in order for it to correctly communicate with the CM-5 module?

Am I wrong to assume this baudrate?

srobot
02-18-2008, 08:45 PM
Ok, I've solved that error message problem. It seems that my 19th servo was causing the woes... I read on one of srobot's threads that he had to disconnect the 19th servo for the CM-5 to operate correctly. Seems like the default ID of the extra AX-12+ servo I bought (if it was programmed with a default ID) was probably causing a bus contention, therefore generating those errors.

I think the extra servos have NO ID set, so it gets an err (don't quote me though). Although I guess what is wrong does not really care as long as we can fix it.

To change the ID, watch a how to video that is on the CD that came with the Bioloid.

--Scotty

srobot
02-18-2008, 09:03 PM
Yeah, I sell a 6-axis IMU for the Bioloid. Its not a trivial thing to use, like on some of the humanoids, since it is not modifying servo pulses, but at least one person has used it with a CM-5 and claims to have gotten worth from it to help balance. If you're programming a more powerful CPU like an onboard gumstix or hammer, then it would definitely help.

Yup, the IMU is good. Of course like you said though, you would get MUCH more out of it with a GumStix or something of that type.

As soon as I get my wire protection done I will post some more videos. Maybe in a week (I am having a hard time with it).

I don't check all of the forums here so if you need a reply send me a link with the contact form on my website.

--Scotty

tom_chang79
02-19-2008, 01:08 AM
I would definitely like to see what you or other people have done to protect the wire. I saw your wire protection scheme on ribolab (your site) but not sure if that will work since shrink wrapping these wires might bundle them up into a round cable instead of flat cable like how it is.

I was thinking of wrapping it with some tape so that the tape can be reapplied once it is scraped thin...

tom_chang79
02-19-2008, 03:18 AM
Ok, just saw my little guy walk for the first time! ;)

What an awesome sight it was to see this little booger finally walk... I solved my problem with the demo program.

Seems like when I first powered him up last night, I accidentally wrote over the demo code by doing the "read from robot" when downloading the motion file in behavior control.

When I did a read from robot, I wrote a dumb motion file that I wrote into the bot from fiddling with the motion edit, which was primarily just sitting since i placed him as sitting on my desk when I first fired him up.

The only difference between the default humanoid in the instruction and mine mechanically are the shoulder c-brackets. Instead of the angled one as pictured, I used a straight C-bracket instead. This was just an aesthetic consideration. I didn't want my humanoid to look like it had a sagging shoulder. I wanted him to have a straight shoulder like the ones on the Kondos.

Wire protection update:

There were two sets of wires that I was most concerned with. They are the wires that connect the hip to the thigh (10 and 12 on page 201 of the Quickstart Manual) and also the wires that went from the knees to the ankles (2 and 4 on page 201 of the Quickstart Manual). I was particularly concerned with the connector at the thigh for 10 and 12 and the connector at the knee for 2 and 4.

What I did was I wrapped a strip of the screw stickers that came with the kit onto the ends of the bus wire, right before where the connector begins to protect the vinyl insulator of the bus wires. I'm hoping this will hold. The stickers themselves aren't that sticky when stuck onto the slippery surface of this insulator, so I made sure to use tweezers when applying this band around the wires. The stickers still doesn't hold very well on the insulator so I'm thinking of applying some duct tape on it if it does slip out. So far, it's holding good enough so I'm just letting it go. Perhaps in the future when it's worn out, I'll wrap it with some regular cellophane tape or maybe with some scotch tape (I like the surface of the scotch tape because it's very smooth).

I think the best sure shot would be to use some ribbon cable with those connectors at the end. Similar ribbon cables as those used inside laptops. Anyone know what kind of connectors Bioloid uses? I could've swore someone wrote about it one time on some thread that they were some standard connector off of digi-key. Will have to search around for them... Also, does anyone know how much current each servo draws before the self shutdown? That would give a good indication of how wide each trace of the ribbon cable would have to be for this application.

I guess for now, I'll be fiddling with the Humanoid's motion editor to get a better walking gait. It's pretty steady on hard floor but one of my goals is to let it walk on carpet. Perhaps slowing it down would be a first step?

JonHylands
02-19-2008, 08:50 AM
You can get all the connectors from Digikey - details on my Bioloid wiki AX-12 page (http://www.bioloid.info/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=AX-12+page).

Feel free to add content to the wiki - its set up as a public repository.

With respect to wire protection - it doesn't really need protection from chafe, what it needs is protection from getting pinched between two moving parts.

You won't be able to use ribbon cable - each servo draws up to 900 mA, but each leg has 6 servos daisy-chained together, so the current for each wire is additive as you get closer to the chest.

- Jon

Alex
02-19-2008, 09:54 AM
Tape might introduce some problems though. I haven't used tape with the Bioloid or any other robotics applications. However, I have used all kinds of tape to protect wire on stationary objects, and let me tell ya, after a while it gets really messy. The sticky residue from the tape starts to get everywhere on the outside of the tape. I could only imagine how messy this would get on non-stationary parts such as servo joints and such.

Then again, when I used electrical tape on my devil sticks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_sticks) that I made back in my "hippie days", that lasted me a REALLY long time...

just my $0.02.

tom_chang79
02-19-2008, 10:39 AM
Hmm, maybe it might be better to experiment with shrink wrap but not wrap it too tight that it bundles the wires and not too loose that it does nothing.

Probably the best solution would be to keep a stockpile of connectors and wires to repair where it breaks...

Jon, do you still have your bioloid configured as a raptor? I bet it has a better stability due to the tail... Does it walk on carpet? I was thinking of ways to stabilize the gait to allow it to walk on carpet, my first thought would be to slow the speed of each gait down... My home doesn't have much hard floor around, mostly carpet so I was hoping to tailor the walking gait to a carpet setting. Maybe a bigger feet would be a good mechanical solution. Hmm, maybe out of some fr-4 material to start with. Has any Bioloid owners experimented with some custom feet?

JonHylands
02-19-2008, 10:55 AM
Yeah, I have MicroRaptor put together, although I don't have any software running on it yet. Hopefully that will change next month - plan is to mount the Hammer on it, and get it walking again.

http://www.huv.com/blog/2008/01/microraptor-is-back.html

I didn't try it on carpet when I did the first walk with it, but the horizontal head and tail orientation will definitely give it more static stability. The whole point of the neck/tail is to be able to sway those (instead of the entire body) to help with the balance transfer while walking. Of course, the robot really needs to be more dynamic before that begins to help. MicroRaptor takes really big strides - the stride length was 5" back when I had it walking, so it should be able to walk on stiff carpet.

In terms of alternate feet, I have some silicone pads I cut from a silicone baking pan that I plan to use, which I plan to attach to the regular feet to give it more traction. That will allow me to use my foot pressure sensor boards to help with balance.

- Jon

tom_chang79
02-19-2008, 03:36 PM
Your microraptor is a beaut. Why the two servos mounted on the head? Are you setting it up for a jaw-type of mechanism up front? The reverse knee design is definitely an awesome implementation of walking. I fiddled around with this type with the biped scout from Lynxmotion. with the knee reversed and the body forward, it definitely kept the CG a bit lower and between the feet and the body...

Keep us posted with your project, it looks very interesting. Is the CM-5 not powerful enough to do many of the real-time things for your raptor?

JonHylands
02-19-2008, 03:54 PM
My main MicroRaptor page is here:

http://www.bioloid.info/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=MicroRaptor

There are some videos of it walking, and screenshots of the GUIs I've built, etc.

Those two servo-like things on the head are actually AX-S1 sensors. I'm using two of them for two reasons - one, I want to experiment with the directional sound capabilities they apparently provide, and two, I think it would look stupid with an AX-S1 for one eye, and a Jpeg camera for the other... (plus the side-looking IR sensor wouldn't work on that side)


The extra servo in the legs serve two purposes:

- makes the legs be a similar configuration to an actual raptor
- makes the legs longer

The key with longer legs (and wider hips) is it allows it to walk (and maintain balance) without swaying the body back and forth, unlike pretty much every other servo-based biped I've ever seen.

See my walking page (http://www.bioloid.info/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=MicroRaptor+Walking) for details...

The CM-5 is nowhere near powerful enough to run the software I'm building for this robot...

- Jon

tom_chang79
02-20-2008, 11:51 PM
I've assigned the extra AX-12+ I bought an ID of 19. How do you incorporate an extra servo into the motion editor for a humanoid? I have it on the waist rotate section, so it's in the crotch area between the two hip rotate servos, 7 and 8.

edit:

Are the plastics in the Bioloid kit dyeable? If so, what are the consequences (such as expansion of material)?

Also, has anyone experimented with larger feet for the humanoid and for any other walking configuration? I think the Bioloid has one of the lowest feet surface area to height ratio out of all the humanoids in its class. I think the larger surface area will aid in walking on carpet or on other soft terrain.

tom_chang79
02-21-2008, 11:13 AM
Check out this pic from robosavvy.com's Bioloid forum:

http://robosavvy.com/Builders/Lenny/R1_hip.jpg

Looks like RTV. That's a pretty good solution to keep the wires pulled tightly at a 90 degree angle with respect to the connector to keep it from rubbing against the bracket's edges...

Alex
02-21-2008, 12:44 PM
that is a pretty good solution, if it's RTV; A little messy but still a good solution. But it looks a lot like hot glue, and I would think hot glue wouldn't hold up.

The Bioloid may have a smaller surface area for its feet than other humanoids, but the feet are much heavier than other humanoids, which benefits other areas.

tom_chang79
02-22-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm still a little confused at how to implement the my waist rotate servo. I've assigned it the ID of 19, but when I hooked it back up to the bus and ran the default humanoid behavior program and motion, this servo just continues to rotate, even though it is not part of the motion/behavior program. Perhaps I need to modify the behavior program to set its motion (which is no motion right now), and not leave it "floating" from a software standpoint?

I was also wondering if anyone has ever dyed their Bioloid pieces as well as if anyone has manufactured robot feet with bigger surface area...

Here is something I came across on tribotix's website yesterday:

http://www.tribotix.com/images/Robotis/Bioloid/bioloid_humanoid.jpg

This kit has a black colored-theme. Which kit was this? Was this an older kit perhaps? I like the color theme of this. Perhaps Robotis made two different color variant to distinguish the region of distribution like the i-sobot?

tom_chang79
02-25-2008, 12:53 AM
Ok, I figured it out.

Humanoid.rbt = 18 servos
Humanoid_.rbt = 19 servos

The content of Humanoid_.rbt is:

3D file:humanoid.x
Motor Number:19
0:1:[1]Dynamixel:512
1:2:[2]Dynamixel:512
2:3:[3]Dynamixel:512
3:4:[4]Dynamixel:512
4:5:[5]Dynamixel:512
5:6:[6]Dynamixel:512
6:7:[7]Dynamixel:512
7:8:[8]Dynamixel:512
8:9:[9]Dynamixel:512
9:10:[10]Dynamixel:512
10:11:[11]Dynamixel:512
11:12:[12]Dynamixel:512
12:13:[13]Dynamixel:512
13:14:[14]Dynamixel:512
14:15:[15]Dynamixel:512
15:16:[16]Dynamixel:512
16:17:[17]Dynamixel:512
17:18:[18]Dynamixel:512
18:19:[19]Dynamixel:512
Sensor Number:1
0:100:[100]Dynamixel


So to add more, you can simply add to the list and update the Motor Number and Sensor Number depending on what you add.

The reference:

3D file:humanoid.x

Is the reference for the 3D file. What format is the *.x file in?

Alex
02-25-2008, 10:14 AM
Hey Tom,

That was actually the prototype design for the Bioloid Kit. I have never came across anybody other than Robotis themselves that actually has the black bracket design.

About changing the color. Have you tried some sort of model car paint? I'm no expert in this area, but I would think that model cars being a hobby that's been around for sooo long that they've found/developed a type of paint that would avoid chips/scratches...

tom_chang79
02-25-2008, 10:27 AM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Maybe try some of the paint I used to use on my Monogram and Revell models. I was also thinking of going the decal route. There are so many decals out there for plastic models. I'll keep you guys posted on what I do with the bot. No pics yet since I have to get my digi camera that I loaned out to another family member...

tom_chang79
02-25-2008, 09:57 PM
Is there any way to read the motion file as a text file? I wouldn't mind being able to edit the motion file manually rather then clicking my way through various sections of the Motion Editor GUI.

One of the things I want to experiment with is setting the motion's acceleration/speed and also be able to forcefully hold my servo ID 19 that is located in the waist rotate to hold steady (Position 512). The default motion for the humanoid seems to want to turn that servo on and start rotating it, thus forcing me to disconnect that waist rotate servo.

Alex
02-25-2008, 10:27 PM
Have you tried to open it up with notepad? If it's not compiled, then you should be able to read it. Also, an editor that I use for many different programming languages is called ConTEXT:

http://www.context.cx/

trey3670
02-25-2008, 11:24 PM
ok guys this looks like the thread to post this in.
I am a newcomer to the bioloid and robotics in general,my robots are the philo,I-sobot,and my fav the bioloid,also have the boe-bot and small projects. my question is this,What am I going to gain with the zigbee add-on?:robotindifferent:

tom_chang79
02-25-2008, 11:39 PM
The zig-bee is a RF-based transceiver. You can control/send packets of code to talk to the CM-5 over an RF connection. You'll need a complementary zigbee module connected to the serial port on your computer if you want your computer to control it. If there was another CM-5 with an added zigbee, you can "network" the two CM-5s for communication between it:


http://www.trossenrobotics.com/bioloid-zig2serial.aspx


http://www.trossenrobotics.com/Controls/i/is.aspx?path=/images/Pimages/FRS-B-ZIG2S.jpg


with

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/images/Pimages/FRS-B-ZIG-100.jpg


You'll need these two sets of electronics to complete the communication network between your CM-5 and your computer.

Since the serial to zig-bee module is interface to an RS232-compatible signal, you can connect any serial-capable device that can talk over the RS232 protocol/signal level, such as a basic atom board with a max232, etc...

trey3670
02-26-2008, 12:02 AM
so by control,you mean I could have some kind of setup on my puter that when I click on a button the robot reacts?

tom_chang79
02-26-2008, 12:20 AM
I don't have much experience software-wise with this, but the hardware is there, so I suppose you can. Whether it's readily available, I can't answer this. Guys? Are there a software interface available and/or is the current software suite speak over the zigbee module without so much more then plug/play sort of effort?

tom_chang79
02-26-2008, 12:39 AM
Have you tried to open it up with notepad? If it's not compiled, then you should be able to read it. Also, an editor that I use for many different programming languages is called ConTEXT:

http://www.context.cx/


Yeah, I've tried to open it with a run-of-the-mill text editor like notepad and the likes, but it seems like there are many blocks of data that aren't ASCII-friendly (ascii characters that aren't on the standard keyboard and possibly undisplayable characters in the mix).

I tried to open it in hex format, thinking that the ASCII might be mixed with binary equivalent, but it has no format that's distinguishable either.

It's probably stored in a proprietary format, whatever the motion editor and the monitor software inside the CM-5 can read. How does the C-programmers do it? Are they simply passing terminal commands into the CM-5? Would be nice to edit the default humanoid motion file since making my bioloid walk as good as the default one would be VERY VERY time consuming...

tom_chang79
02-26-2008, 03:00 AM
so by control,you mean I could have some kind of setup on my puter that when I click on a button the robot reacts?


Ok here is a quote from the zigbee product page here at trossen:

"
PC to Bioloid Communication
Install one Zig-100 module in your Bioloid robot's CM-5 control module.
Connect the second Zig-100 to a TTL-to-RS232 adapter, such as the Robotis Zig2Serial adapter (Coming Soon!).
Issue commands to your robot via your computer's serial port!
"

I guess you use the robot terminal program that came with the kit or you can probably use other terminal programs (like hyperterm, lynxterm, etc...) to send out commands to your CM-5 to move the servos or to get sensor data. Refer to the user guide of the Bioloid on how to use the Robot Terminal:

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/images/productdownloads/Bioloid_User_Guide(English).pdf

Good luck!

trey3670
02-26-2008, 01:14 PM
ok thanks!:)
I think that answers my question,my goal is to have control much like you see in the robo one vids,two bots dukeing it out with both guys eitheir sitting at a laptop or a ps2 controller in their hands.
and from what I can find it is not a novice project to have a ps2 controller integrated into the bioloid.
I think I prefer the laptop method anyway. more options!:veryhappy:

trey3670
02-26-2008, 05:02 PM
parts ordered,anyone know of a thread that details how this is assembled? I couldn't find one and am thinking about making one.

tom_chang79
02-26-2008, 09:49 PM
As far as I know, you just solder the zigbee module into the CM-5 board and the zig2serial board. Take careful note of the orientation of the module.

Soldering of the zig-bee is covered in the bioloid manuals, soldering it into the serial board is similar I imagine.

tom_chang79
03-04-2008, 12:55 AM
I need help with adjusting the variables in the motion editor.

In the right pane of this GUI, what does the "Motion speed" and "Accel time" do? I read the user manual and it's quite cryptic on what the instructions meant. I know that the "speed" underneath each pose is the speed at which that pose is executed from its previous position, wherever it may be. But I don't understand the relationship of the "Motion speed" has to do with "Accel time." The instruction book says that "Motion speed" is the speed at which the page is executed. 32 is the default value for a blank page, and changing it to 64 makes the page move twice as fast.

I was going through all the pages of "forward walk" and "backward walk" motion page that exists in the default humanoid motion file. The values in the default humanoid motion file were:

Motion speed: 14
Accel time: 4

I changed the "Motion speed" of every page of the forward walk and backward walk by following the "next page" until ALL the associated pages were changed. The values I changed it to are:

Motion speed: 7
Accel time:4

Now, the forward walk and the backward walk are unusable. My bot just throws its knees up really fast and just freezes there. The speed at which the motion is played is much much faster then default and I noticed that not all the poses in the pages seems to be played.

What exactly is the relationship of the "speed" underneath each pose, the "motion speed" in the table on the right, and the "accel time" that is also in the table on the right?

:confused:

tom_chang79
03-11-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm going to quote Bullit from robosavvy's forum:


In the bioloid firmware max velocity achieved between poses is the product of page speed and pose speed. There is a problem in the bioloid firmware when the product of page and pose speed exceeds the maximum servo speed. In this situation I think the pose is simply skipped. The bioloid firmware does updates to the servos at about 8ms so in the motion editor a pose delay of 1 = 8ms, 2 = 16ms, accel time of 1 = 8ms etc... So if you have a very small move from one pose to the next having a long accel time may limit the actual velocity achieved betwen poses. To address this you can reduce the accel time. With shorter accel / decel time, hence greater acceleration I would expect more jerk and overshoot from the system.

Another thing to keep in mind in the bioloid firmware is that a delay setting of 0 implies that there will be a 0 deceleration time to allow continuous motion from one pose to another.
Here (http://www.megarobot.net/cj/manualy/robotis/cycloid/CM2/Motion_Data_aj.pdf) is a reference to some old Robotis information about the motion 512 data structure. I believe its evolved a bit since this document was created.

My own "research" from the User's Guide shows:


"Stopping Time = 7.8msec * Pause Time * 32 / Page Speed"

"Pose Performing Time = 7.8msec * Time * 32 / Page Speed"

On Page 78:
"Motion Speed Regulates the speed at which a page is played. The initial value... "

LinuxGuy
03-23-2008, 10:20 PM
Yeah, I sell a 6-axis IMU for the Bioloid. Its not a trivial thing to use, like on some of the humanoids, since it is not modifying servo pulses, but at least one person has used it with a CM-5 and claims to have gotten worth from it to help balance. If you're programming a more powerful CPU like an onboard gumstix or hammer, then it would definitely help.

http://www.huvrobotics.com
Jon, how difficult would it be to make a similar unit to work with I2C or other interface means? I'm more interested in I2C, which is more or less universal these days. I'd like to experiment with something like this on W.A.L.T.E.R. once I get him up and running with Hammer.

8-Dale

JonHylands
03-24-2008, 08:29 AM
Well, it wouldn't be difficult at all, but it would be more expensive - you would have to make a custom board for it. Actually, though, you could get a board that size printed for about $40-50, maybe cheaper in the US, so it isn't that bad. The ATmega168 that I use onboard can easily do I2C, so its really just a question of re-wiring and changing the software...

- Jon

tom_chang79
03-26-2008, 12:21 AM
I believe srobot have used the IMU with his bioloid humanoid with some success (the cartwheeling). Jon, have you had success with using your IMU with your bioloid?

JonHylands
03-26-2008, 09:30 AM
I haven't had a chance to use it yet - been too busy building BrainBot... I'm taking a break from that now though, and have started working on MicroRaptor again, so hopefully fairly soon I will get to that...

- Jon

LinuxGuy
03-27-2008, 02:55 AM
Well, it wouldn't be difficult at all, but it would be more expensive - you would have to make a custom board for it. Actually, though, you could get a board that size printed for about $40-50, maybe cheaper in the US, so it isn't that bad.
Hmmmmm, something like this that would be stackable would be great for Hammer (http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16133&cat=0&page=1&featured). :happy: I2C, SPI, or RS-232/TTL interface. :) Using the breakout boards is easiest, but it seems like a single board with all the components on it would be better if one was to want to sell it. I want to see Hammer (http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16133&cat=0&page=1&featured) on a successful RoboMagellan robot one day. :happy: Dang, I wish I could do smd/smt stuff now, but I have a long way to go to get where I can do that (have a great soldering station now).

8-Dale

tom_chang79
03-27-2008, 11:54 AM
I haven't had a chance to use it yet - been too busy building BrainBot... I'm taking a break from that now though, and have started working on MicroRaptor again, so hopefully fairly soon I will get to that...

- Jon

Wow, you have two sets of Bioloids? I was always under the assumption that the brain bot was cannibalized for the microraptor...

JonHylands
03-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Yeah, I have two full kits - it turns out in its current form (tracked base), BrainBot and the "voodoo doll" that we use to control it, are only using half the servos I have, so I have enough to build MicroRaptor as well (20 servos).

Here's a picture I took last night:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/3/2/0/microraptor_16_mid.jpg

I have the serial Jpeg camera mounted between the two AX-S1's in the head, the foot pressure sensors mounted on the feet, and the new CNC-machined "chassis" that everything connects to in the middle. Right now I mounted one of my USB boards to the chassis, but I should be getting the new custom board that will hold the Hammer processor, my IMU, and the bus interface tomorrow. In between the two decks of the chassis is an 11.1 volt LiPoly battery to power the whole thing.

I also need to machine a piece of brass for the end of the tail, in order to balance out the extra weight on the head.

Once everything is together, then I (finally) get to start playing with the software again...

- Jon

tom_chang79
03-28-2008, 10:11 PM
That is one sweet bot you got there. Can't wait to see the whole thing come together, your foot pressure sensor, AX-S1s, IMUs, etc...

I haven't done much with my humanoid lately. I need to get on it...

tom_chang79
04-14-2008, 11:08 AM
Lately, I've been using the Robot Terminal to edit some of my motion pages. Yesterday, I've edited the speed of an individual pose across many pages. The results were far from pleasing. My bot looked like it was having some seizures... I'm still struggling to understand the relationship of these parameters:

1) SPEED of an INDIVIDUAL pose (in Robot Terminal, STP1, STP2, ...,)

2) TIME of an INDIVIDUAL pose (in Robot Terminal, STP1, STP2, ...,)

3) Accel Time of the PAGE

4) Speed of the PAGE

All I did yesterday, was change the speed of the various motions on all the related pages of the walking from the default value of "10" to "05" which I thought would halve the speed of the overall gait. My bot looked like it was struggling to go to position, like it was having some seizures.

I've left a few of the motion pages untouched, and left the individual poses to be the default speed of "10" to see the comparison of the motion between the different pages.

Does anyone know of the relationship between these parameters? I've posted the individual effect of these parameters a few posts back, but I fail to understand the interaction between them and which parameters get priority over which ones... :confused:

DresnerRobotics
04-14-2008, 11:27 AM
My guess:

Time is the max time it takes for all servos to reach their position, and ultimately has priority over speed. If you increase speed (usually by lowering the value, but not sure here) it will speed things up. But, say you have Time set to a theoretical 1 second, and try to slow the Speed down to a value that would make the servos move to position in 1.5 seconds, Time will take priority and the servos will move to their position in 1 second. Did I explain that well?

I've dealt with other servo controllers that have Time and Speed functionality, and thats how it worked on them. Just a guess though.

tom_chang79
04-21-2008, 10:54 AM
Thanks Tyberius, I guess the best thing to do is keep playing around with the values to see what the relationship is. I think rather then messing with the walking gait, I should create another set of simple motion file, for testing and development use, and make the behavior control program jump into that set of motions to test out the speed vs. time vs. accel thing. There's also this "compliance" factor that I'm still quite puzzled on, I think it has to do with approaching the target position and stopping :confused:

Will keep you all in the Bioloid community of my findings...

Alex
04-22-2008, 10:49 AM
Will keep you all in the Bioloid community of my findings...

Awesome Tom, thanks:) Could you upload anything you build to our Downloads Library (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php) for the community to check out?

tom_chang79
04-28-2008, 10:45 AM
Will do Alex... Not sure how much work I can get done on my Bioloid... I keep task switching between my Bioloid and my CH3-R. Having two robots was a mistake, they are like kids, both needs attention! ;)

Recently, I saw a Bioloid-based hexapod that looks very much like Matt Denton's creations in terms of style, and the leg implementation like Lynxmotion's hexapods. Has anyone seen this? I forget where I saw it. I thought it was pretty interesting.

Another thought but on the subject of humanoids. Have any of you out there deviated from the default configuration of the humanoid's legs? I've seen a few variants, but I wondered what the advantages/disadvantages of the variant are.

So far, I cannot see past the default configuration, as I believe it is optimal for the number of servos that are implemented with.

JonHylands
04-28-2008, 10:50 AM
Probably this one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yntkM2bapjc

(he's using my USB board)

- Jon

Alex
04-28-2008, 12:28 PM
WOW! I can imagine some really cool robots coming out of that configuration;)

tom_chang79
05-01-2008, 11:36 AM
Not it's not that one. Let me see if I can find it again. That is a great demonstration of a configuration, but the one I saw was a hexapod that looked like the Matt Denton's creations. It certainly reminded me of that...

It didn't use the square CM5 housing that comes with the kit, it purely used brackets as the main chassis. I was wondering how and where the CM5 was going to be placed on that design, perhaps it was to be designed to be tethered to a PC while operating (shudders at the thought, robots should be free to roam IMO :p)

The leg design is your classic 3DOF leg design that many hexapods use... The configuration of the hip servos just reminded me of Matt Denton's hexy...

trey3670
05-01-2008, 01:02 PM
hey tom did you add the waist servo? I have another coming but just had an idea and was curious as to weather or not that made the loid more nimble or stable?

tom_chang79
05-02-2008, 02:54 AM
It's really hard to answer that question because I haven't done much with my Bioloid, and I haven't done anything at all with the waist rotate servo... So far, it just sits in position 512 (centered) while I mess with the default program and modifying it for stability.

I suppose that it would create a more stable and nimble bioloid humanoid because I envision the usage of it being synchronized when the bioloid is swing its arm while walking.

If you can twist the waist slightly to counter some of the swing from the legs as well as even slightly shifting the COG to aid in the walking, the walking would look and feel more stable...

I haven't really incorporated this yet since I'm still trying to get a handle on the motion files, which is the key to this robot.

I believe understanding the mechanisms behind the motion files, such as speed, accel, time, and compliance (s-curves) are the most important aspect of the bioloid. I think once you get an extensive set of motions, it is a matter of action/reaction programming to determine which set gets played...

Of course, my purpose for the Bioloid is to give it autonomous behavior and not an RC-based, so that's why setting up a solid set of motion files is my priority number one.

I suppose if you are going the RC route, once you get a basic set of motion files set up, you can coordinate the rest since it would be manually controlled at a high level...

tom_chang79
05-08-2008, 10:42 AM
Have you seen the aluminum brackets that are coming out from CrustCrawler? I just read the latest issue of Robot Mag with an article that featured the Smart Robotic Arm that are AX-12+ based by Steve Norris.

After reading the article, I wondered if they were going to be offering the same aluminum brackets used on the Robotic Arm... To my surprise, they are!

Here is the pics from the CrustCrawler site (www.crustcrawler.com (http://www.crustcrawler.com))

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/images/3smartbrackets_600.jpg

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/images/smartbracket45_600.jpg

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/images/smartbracketlong_600.jpg


One bracket that I thought was missing was the wide-jawed C-bracket that are used on the hip and the ankle of the humanoid.

Anyone planning on using these brackets in their Bioloid? According to the article, it uses 5051 Aluminum, probably because of the material being able to preserve its integrity after bending [to make brackets]...

Alex
05-08-2008, 11:03 AM
holy crap those things are cool:D:D

Now, if I can only get around to writing a .NET wrapper around Jon's USB Bus Board (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/huv-robotics-bioloid-usb-bus-board.aspx) and other products (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/m/huv-robotics.aspx), I'm golden:)

Droid Works
05-09-2008, 09:13 AM
Have you seen the aluminum brackets that are coming out from CrustCrawler? I just read the latest issue of Robot Mag with an article that featured the Smart Robotic Arm that are AX-12+ based by Steve Norris.

After reading the article, I wondered if they were going to be offering the same aluminum brackets used on the Robotic Arm... To my surprise, they are!

Here is the pics from the CrustCrawler site (www.crustcrawler.com (http://www.crustcrawler.com))

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/images/3smartbrackets_600.jpg

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/images/smartbracket45_600.jpg

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/images/smartbracketlong_600.jpg


One bracket that I thought was missing was the wide-jawed C-bracket that are used on the hip and the ankle of the humanoid.

Anyone planning on using these brackets in their Bioloid? According to the article, it uses 5051 Aluminum, probably because of the material being able to preserve its integrity after bending [to make brackets]...
Any idea what the prices on these are yet?

MikeG
05-09-2008, 09:25 AM
Hey Alex, What kind of wrapper do you need to write? We have an API and a very extensive open source .NET application (written by Scott Ferguson one of the original VB developers) for the FTDI chip here at CrustCrawler. Plus for about the same $$$ as a USB2Dynamixel or Jon's USB Bus Board (both awesome products), you can pick up a Parallax Propeller.

I just finished testing our 1/2 duplex bus and Dyanmixel object for the Prop, with the help of Steve Norris. Plus, the Prop object is compatible with the .NET applications mentioned above. If your not familiar with the Prop, it is pretty cool device with its 8 parallel cogs (micros)... steep learning curve... but very slick.

Droid Works, Give me a sec, I'll get a ballpark price on the SSBs

MikeG
05-10-2008, 01:22 PM
The SSBs will range from $20 to $30 each, similar pricing to the RX aluminum brackets. The difference being that the SSBs have integrated PEM nuts.

Adrenalynn
05-10-2008, 01:30 PM
The integrated PEMs really speed up assembly too. (I have your SG6). Where there weren't pems, I was in for hours with a pair of really-long-nosed needlenose and holding my breath to keep from cross-threading. ;)

MikeG
05-11-2008, 11:26 AM
Yep, we learned about PEMs after designing the original HexCralwer rather by accident. I believe it was a machine shop guy that mentioned, “Use a PEM for that pivot”. “What’s a PEM?” and rest is history. Now we use them whenever we can.

Wow, you must have one of the original SGs if there were no PEMs.

Adrenalynn
05-11-2008, 12:00 PM
Naw, I just mean the places where there weren't PEMs in the build. They are cool, I grant that!

JonHylands
05-11-2008, 12:04 PM
The integrated PEMs really speed up assembly too. (I have your SG6). Where there weren't pems, I was in for hours with a pair of really-long-nosed needlenose and holding my breath to keep from cross-threading. ;)

In defence of Robotis, the original plastic brackets that come with the Bioloid have integral nut pockets, which make assembly pretty fast and simple...

- Jon

Wingzero01w
05-11-2008, 01:39 PM
I can't wait to get those brackets, whens the expected release date for them?

MikeG
05-12-2008, 08:12 AM
It usually takes 2-3 weeks to get parts manufactured and anodized. I guess I should get the process started.

Alex
05-12-2008, 05:02 PM
Hey Alex, What kind of wrapper do you need to write?

I haven't really gone through all of the architecture yet, so I'm not sure on everything that I'd put into this, but basically my end goal is to remove the users from having to understand all of the low level serial commands and wrap them up into high level commands.



We have an API and a very extensive open source .NET application (written by Scott Ferguson one of the original VB developers) for the FTDI chip here at CrustCrawler. Plus for about the same $$$ as a USB2Dynamixel or Jon's USB Bus Board (both awesome products), you can pick up a Parallax Propeller.

Could you add this to the TRC Downloads Library (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php)? I (along with I'm sure many others in the TRC) would love to check this out! Any other software, examples, documentation, etc. that you'd like to share, please, feel free to add it to the Downloads Library too;)



I just finished testing our 1/2 duplex bus and Dyanmixel object for the Prop, with the help of Steve Norris. Plus, the Prop object is compatible with the .NET applications mentioned above. If your not familiar with the Prop, it is pretty cool device with its 8 parallel cogs (micros)... steep learning curve... but very slick.

A bit over my head here. I'm not an EE guy, more of a SE (but slowly learning EE) guy. Could you "dumb" this down a bit? BTW, I'm not familar with the Propellor (again not an EE guy:D).

MikeG
05-12-2008, 10:25 PM
We’ve got the low level stuff wrapped pretty tight. The VB.NET API closely follows the AX-12 command structure it works with the HUV Bioloid bus and USB2Dynamixel. I’ll be adding some updates… probably by the end of the weekend. The stuff that Scott Ferguson wrote is absolutely top notch; it also works with the HUV Bioloid bus and USB2Dynamixel. I only wish I could program like Scott. By the way, I wrote the VB.NET API for you guys sometime last summer. I thought we were going to team up on a rover project.

You can find all of the source code and documentation on the following page. http://www.crustcrawler.com/products/smartarm/index.php?prod=12 I only ask that if anyone creates some cool apps or mods, let us know.


The Parallax Propeller has 8 parallel cogs or microcontrollers for true parallel processing. Parallax created an object based language called SPIN that gives you access to hardware resources or you can write in assembly. It takes a bit of getting used to but after you get the hang of it… Wow, it’s real powerful for the cost.

The AX-12 uses a 1Mbps ½ duplex serial bus; send and receive on the same line. Because of the bus speed, I ended up writing the driver in assembly. I used SPIN for the higher level AX-12 stuff. What’s really cool is that you can use the Propeller as a very powerful middleware component. Lots of folks love their micros. They put a lot of time and effort into learning all about em’. But sometimes these micros just don’t have the oomph to handle the AX-12 1Mbps bus. Well, the Prop code will translate from 2400 baud to 1Mpbs. If anyone has written an app for the HUV Bioloid bus or the USB2Dynamixel, it will literally plug right in to the Prop.

As you can see, I’m pretty excited about the Propeller and Dynamixel development. The two pair up well to make a cost effective, open, and powerful solution.

Wingzero01w
05-13-2008, 12:21 AM
I want to learn about the propellor but like ive said before, the language looks really hard to learn. But i am on the other hand dying to learn about the Ax-12's and other dynamixels. I want to ultimately control the dynamixels by basic stamp, propellor, and dsPIC.

Back to the brackets, is there only going to be those for the ax-12's or do you plan on making them for the other dynamixels aswell? And would it be possible to make a humanoid out of the brackets?

MikeG
05-13-2008, 08:56 AM
We have brackets for all the Dynamixels :confused: Yes, you can build a humanoid with a Bioloid kit.

If you want to learn about the AX-12 and/or Propeller, check out the page mentioned above and start experimenting. You'll find a lot of open source code and documentation on crustcrawler.com.

JonHylands
05-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Mike,

Does the .NET library allow you to talk to arbitrary bus devices, or only AX-12's?

For instance, if I wanted to talk to my foot pressure board, or my IMU?

My devices use the same bus protocol as an AX-12, but the control table is different (obviously), although the common stuff (ID, baud rate, LED, etc) are all in the same places.

- Jon

MikeG
05-13-2008, 08:49 PM
Hey Jon,

The library would work fine with all of your stuff, with the exception of maybe the Dynamixel Control table object. Making another control table would be a piece of cake.

It would take me about a day or two to interface your hardware, refractor the API, and add a bit abstraction. Send me an email if you're interested.

tom_chang79
05-24-2008, 04:00 AM
Do you guys remember this video:

YouTube - Robo-One upgrade kit for Bioloid

Well, I looked at the title and description more closely, and it seems to be a Robo-One upgrade kit for the Bioloid! I guess the hand-axe isn't really just for hand stands but it can be used for battle (as it should)...

Hooray!

Couple this with Alpha's RC Bioloid method, or using Robotis' Zig-bee based wireless controller that's soon to be released, and you'd have a serious contender in the Robo-One with the Bioloid! I've always believed that the Bioloid was already a great robot to contend with, but this upgrade kit is kinda nice to have even aesthetically if not functionally...

trey3670
05-24-2008, 09:19 AM
have you started on your battle axe yet? I am going through different designs,and want to incorporate a shield.

Droid Works
05-24-2008, 03:18 PM
I think we are gonna see some bioloids kicking some but at the robogames next year.

tom_chang79
06-13-2008, 04:00 PM
Awhile ago, I posted about someone out there having a different hexapod design using the Bioloid kit then the one that is in the instruction manual. I figured out who it was, it was from a user named "cosa" from the Robosavvy forum:

http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=169184

trey3670
06-13-2008, 05:27 PM
thats pretty cool,I would like to see a vid of it walking,I realy like that configuration better than the king spider.

Alex
06-20-2008, 12:43 PM
that is a pretty interesting design... I'd love to see a vid of those wheels in action!

Droid Works
06-20-2008, 01:09 PM
I realy like the look of the new bioloid.
YouTube - New Bioloid Humanoid Robot

tom_chang79
06-20-2008, 08:37 PM
Is this the robo-one upgrade kit that Robotis is planning to release? Are the brackets metal or are they black plastic (like on some of their early prototypes)?

Droid Works
06-21-2008, 10:33 AM
They are plastic. There are 2 versions a soccer version and a fighting version. The only difference between the 2 are servo placement. The fighting version takes 2 hip servos and puts them in the arms.

tom_chang79
06-21-2008, 05:09 PM
So the next revision of the Bioloid is going to have black brackets? Or is it a prototype color? Any changes to the AX-12+s?

Droid Works
06-21-2008, 05:20 PM
There were 2 models there white and black so I think you may have a choice.

TechMech
06-21-2008, 11:23 PM
If that is the new bioloid then what are these?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2595284284/in/set-72157605720135631/

Droid Works
06-22-2008, 02:25 AM
I think that is the soccer version or the prototypes.

tom_chang79
06-22-2008, 06:38 AM
seems like the body casing has changed from those pics, is this true? Is the CM-5 being replaced with a more capable unit or is it just a body casing update?

Droid Works
06-23-2008, 03:48 PM
I don't know what the internal changes are yet. The Robotis rep was kind of tight lipped about what was inside. But he did say they will have a remote.

DresnerRobotics
06-23-2008, 04:14 PM
A lot of the size reduction comes from the batteries being removed from the CM-5 as well.

TechMech
06-23-2008, 05:37 PM
So we are not going to see the Robo One metal frame upgrade kit with the axe as shown in the video? I think this is what a lot of us were hoping for. :genmad:

trey3670
06-23-2008, 06:29 PM
I am curious,why do you want metal brackets? have you actually broken the plastic ones? I just dont understand that there is an advantage. comeing from an rc back ground with cars,trucks ,helis,planks, it is all the rage to "bling" out your rig with purple anodized aluminum,and some of thos parts have merit,they take flex away where it is not wanted,rudder mount on a heli for instance. but
i have found that high quality plastic will out last and in most cases out perform metal parts,its will flex and regain its original position where metal will bend. I know the brackets on the bio make it alot easyer on the servos,they serve as a servo saver if you get my meaning. diff colors,yes I have found that painting them doesnt work so well,still trying diff things but its on the back burner. what I am waiting on is a remote. so I can start getting this thing ready to fight!

TechMech
06-23-2008, 07:51 PM
I am curious,why do you want metal brackets? have you actually broken the plastic ones? I just dont understand that there is an advantage. comeing from an rc back ground with cars,trucks ,helis,planks, it is all the rage to "bling" out your rig with purple anodized aluminum,and some of thos parts have merit,they take flex away where it is not wanted,rudder mount on a heli for instance. but
i have found that high quality plastic will out last and in most cases out perform metal parts,its will flex and regain its original position where metal will bend. I know the brackets on the bio make it alot easyer on the servos,they serve as a servo saver if you get my meaning. diff colors,yes I have found that painting them doesnt work so well,still trying diff things but its on the back burner. what I am waiting on is a remote. so I can start getting this thing ready to fight!

I'm not so much concerned with fighting. Seems like the Bioloid in that video had a range of motion and movement I have not seen in any bots except the custom bots we see from Japan, Korea and here in the States. Why would they have used metal brackets if the stock plastic brackets could have done the same thing?

trey3670
06-23-2008, 07:57 PM
that hadnt crossed my mind,I guess I just assumed that they had made the custom brackets out of metal because thats the material that they could use,its hard for a hobiest to get molded custom stuff. while we use metal when we have to make our own. having seen that vid I can see where it will tweak the plastic,but I bet it will hold up.

tom_chang79
06-24-2008, 11:01 AM
That's a good point trey. I've had many experience with plastic parts on R/Cs as well, and they are more resilient to slight bends since many of the plastics used were not brittle. I had another R/C, the RC10B4 FT (factory team), which used many composite material, and the parts were more rigid but more brittle that kept breaking even with the slightest force... Performance-wise, it was great since the suspension components did not flex (thus altering its geometry), but pocket-wise ($$$) it was unfriendly, having to replace one or two A-arms per race day...

But you are right about working with metals versus plastics. At low volumes, like for personal consumption, plastic parts are a lot more expensive to produce then metal-based parts... You only break even or lower the cost, of making plastic parts, at higher quantities, where the cost of creating the mold becomes a smaller factor in the overall cost...

I believe that aluminum is picked by many of the robo-one competitors because that they are readily machinable (to my knowledge, all aluminum are machinable), fairly cheap, quite lightweight but strong enough for this application, and the cost is within reason...

trey3670
06-24-2008, 11:51 AM
yeah thats what I am saying,metal has its place but flex is good! I mean even a pro gets slamed into the wall everynow and then. like that axe. if it was plastic it would flex to much,sides wouldnt look near as cool! it doesnt look to hard to fab. from everything I have been able to find out about it it is from spain.

DresnerRobotics
06-24-2008, 12:10 PM
My Bioloid has been ordered :D

Consider me part of the cool kids club now~

trey3670
06-24-2008, 12:31 PM
sweet! welcome to the darkside!

Droid Works
06-24-2008, 01:18 PM
My Bioloid has been ordered :D

Consider me part of the cool kids club now~

Whooo Hooo:) We both have ours now it is just a matter of time before we turn them into Mech-O-loids...lol Let me know if those CNC files were any help. They are speced for the AX-12.

DresnerRobotics
06-24-2008, 01:19 PM
Whooo Hooo:) We both have ours now it is just a matter of time before we turn them into Mech-O-loids...lol Let me know if those CNC files were any help. They are speced for the AX-12.

I'm going to prototype with the plastic brackets first, then move to custom aluminum ones. But I'll cut some up for you when I do :)

LinuxGuy
06-24-2008, 04:38 PM
I'm going to prototype with the plastic brackets first, then move to custom aluminum ones. But I'll cut some up for you when I do :)
Do you have a CNC setup?? If so, I'd like to discuss making some custom brackets.

8-Dale

tom_chang79
06-25-2008, 12:27 AM
Looks like your J5 will have a new buddy soon! Welcome to the club!

Droid Works
06-25-2008, 11:24 AM
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k15/walice_drel/robotisctrlr.jpg

Robotis's new Zigbee controller which will come out in just a month or two.

DresnerRobotics
06-25-2008, 11:36 AM
Do you have a CNC setup?? If so, I'd like to discuss making some custom brackets.

8-Dale

My brother co-owns a professional machine shop down in the Bay Area... unfortunately he won't bother making stuff for me unless its in quantity. Not worth it to make 10 brackets when it barely takes any more time to make 100.

4mem8
06-25-2008, 01:36 PM
Even though I do not own a bioloid yet I would still be interested in a set of brackets for when I do.

jon-man
06-25-2008, 02:19 PM
I'm using Alpha's program and I was wondering if I want to use zig100 with it do I need to change settings? do I just solder the board to the robot and to the computer then run the program? ty

jon-man
06-25-2008, 02:38 PM
same with robot terminal can I call up pages like I do with the cable connected, with zig100?

tom_chang79
06-25-2008, 03:49 PM
I believe crustcrawler will be making some soon. They already use these on their AX-12+-based Smart Arm kit, but whether they will make metal/aluminum variants for all the available brackets and pieces remains a mystery, since the Smart Arm only uses a large subset of all the brackets available in the Bioloid kit...

DresnerRobotics
06-25-2008, 03:58 PM
^ From what I've heard they cost a very pretty penny for the brackets though.

trey3670
06-25-2008, 05:09 PM
this guy has built a rather unique bioloid humanoid,different bracket placement etc.. http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2645

DresnerRobotics
06-26-2008, 11:17 PM
I received my Bioloid kit and am building the humanoid before tearing it apart to build my mech.

Question- do the 'stickers' serve a purpose?

trey3670
06-26-2008, 11:36 PM
yeah they hold in some nuts in a hard to reach spot

Adrenalynn
06-27-2008, 12:04 AM
The Bioloid needs stickers to hold on its nuts?

Someone had to ask...

4mem8
06-27-2008, 12:45 AM
Hey Tyberius, pIcs of the Bioloid progress as you go please.

trey3670
06-27-2008, 01:06 AM
they are slippery nuts!

tom_chang79
06-27-2008, 03:42 AM
Indeed, I lost a couple of them while screwing...

sorry, had to add that in :rolleyes:

Adrenalynn
06-27-2008, 04:01 AM
Ok - maybe no one had to say it afterall...

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 04:06 AM
Completed my Bioloid Humanoid about 15 minutes ago... total build time just under 6 hours.

Excellent kit all around, I'm about to have it start walking (crosses fingers)

4mem8
06-27-2008, 04:48 AM
Great news, Pic, pics, Pics

tom_chang79
06-27-2008, 05:34 AM
the only thing I deviated from the default configuration is the bracket at the shoulders. I opted to use the straight C bracket rather then the angled one...

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 09:38 AM
So did anyone else have issues with the stock demo file? Walking doesnt appear to be right at all... even the dancing demo appears to be off, it seems like the legs move too much and make the robot fall over every time.

When I run the build check program he lines up perfectly straight, but the stock demo file is out of whack.

Alex
06-27-2008, 09:51 AM
Congrats on the build Ty! I'm happy for ya man:D

Do you have it walking around on flat smooth flooring?

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 09:57 AM
Congrats on the build Ty! I'm happy for ya man:D

Do you have it walking around on flat smooth flooring?

Yup. It's not a matter of the flooring, there definitely seems to be something wrong with the motion files. Basically the legs seem like they move in an over-exaggerated fashion. I read somewhere else that you may have to edit the default motion files to get them to work?

Did anyone elses work straight out of the box with the default ones? I wanted to get the humanoid walking a bit before I tore it apart to build my mech.

Alex
06-27-2008, 11:42 AM
Yes, I ran into this same problem. Unfortunately, I never got around yet to asking anyone if they've built a better version of it. If so, please upload it (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php)!

(and anything else cool that you've made:D)

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 11:53 AM
Yes, I ran into this same problem. Unfortunately, I never got around yet to asking anyone if they've built a better version of it. If so, please upload it (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php)!

(and anything else cool that you've made:D)

Do you have the program that the display bioloid was running at Robogames?

Droid Works
06-27-2008, 12:27 PM
Its on the CD that comes with the bioloid, you have it.

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 12:29 PM
Its on the CD that comes with the bioloid, you have it.

Yes, I have the one on the CD loaded, I was thinking maybe there was something wrong with the version I have.

trey3670
06-27-2008, 12:31 PM
I know they updated the software a few months ago and made it available on their site,but I dont know about the demo motions,I dont think I had a problem with them.

Droid Works
06-27-2008, 12:34 PM
Did you set his home position? I had the same problem he would fall down allot. Once I corected his home position all the files worked fine.

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 12:41 PM
Well, I loaded the check assembly file and it looked perfect... do I need to adjust the home position on the other one? It didnt quite look the same as the check assembly, legs were a bit bent at the knees but otherwise the bot was vertical and the feet & hips were parallel.

Droid Works
06-27-2008, 12:46 PM
Sounds like you have to do the offset (set home position). Go to page 206 in your quick start guide.

DresnerRobotics
06-27-2008, 12:50 PM
^ Thanks, would be nice if they told you that before they told you to run the demo -_-

I'll load that up on my lunch and see whats going on.

agavejoe
07-06-2008, 10:00 AM
We just release aluminum brackets for the AX-12+.
http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/brackets.php?prod=68

We did our best to keep the price down and still manufacture a quality product.

DresnerRobotics
07-06-2008, 10:16 AM
We just release aluminum brackets for the AX-12+.
http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/brackets.php?prod=68

We did our best to keep the price down and still manufacture a quality product.


Nice! Any plans on releasing the Long U brackets?

MikeG
07-06-2008, 05:39 PM
Long Brackets are on the site
http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/A...ts.php?prod=68 (http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/brackets.php?prod=68)

Adrenalynn
07-06-2008, 07:44 PM
They're both called "short bracket" (typo?) but the second is indeed the long...

trey3670
07-06-2008, 08:13 PM
I believe the short refers to the width,the hip bracket would be long

MikeG
07-07-2008, 12:28 AM
Adrenalynn: Cut and paste error - fixed

DresnerRobotics
07-07-2008, 02:13 AM
Any plan on the wide brackets? For the double servo ankle/hip configs the humanoid uses?

tom_chang79
07-07-2008, 03:55 PM
The "wide" bracket that Tyberius is referring to is the "F5" bracket (according to their actuator frame set link)...

Any plans on making this bracket as well? It is used in two places (four brackets total for the humanoid), which are two critical places...

I think the bracket set you see now are from the smart arm, but hopefully, the "F5" will be available soon...

tom_chang79
07-07-2008, 03:59 PM
Aside from the metal frames, I want to start a discussion on programming the Bioloid in C. I'm still quite puzzled by the whole thing:

1) Is it possible to program the Bioloid in C without the extra CD that was included in the expert kit (I don't have an expert kit)?

2) If yes to 1), then where do I get the libraries for it (I'm assuming that the compiler is gcc)? Also, where can I get a "hello world" code to test out my hardware while programming in C?

3) Is there a "howto"?

openmindedjjj
07-08-2008, 02:55 PM
no their is no gyro that comes with it. if you want a gyro you have to buy it sepreatly

siempre.aprendiendo
07-08-2008, 03:11 PM
Aside from the metal frames, I want to start a discussion on programming the Bioloid in C. I'm still quite puzzled by the whole thing:

1) Is it possible to program the Bioloid in C without the extra CD that was included in the expert kit (I don't have an expert kit)?

2) If yes to 1), then where do I get the libraries for it (I'm assuming that the compiler is gcc)? Also, where can I get a "hello world" code to test out my hardware while programming in C?

3) Is there a "howto"?

I think that you can find all the answers in the first version of Bioloid CD :)

1) Yes, it's.
2) You only need WinAVR, it use GCC.
3) The first version of the Bioloid's user guide (Ver 1.00):

9. Information for Advanced Users
9-1. Boot Loader Page 116
9-2. Using the C Program Language Page 119
9-3. Compiling Page 120
9-4. Example.c Page 126

There's a example.c in the first release of the Bioloid CD.

There were several webs that "hosted" a zip with the full CD. I don't know if it's still online... May be even Robotis still has it online...

openmindedjjj
07-08-2008, 04:42 PM
hey i looked at the video on changing the id and it goes to a changing id .bpg file which i cant find on my computer. if anybody has that file called change id.bpg in the examples folder please upload it or sent it to me.

Adrenalynn
07-09-2008, 11:33 AM
Do they publish the file format for their motions files, or has anyone figured it out? I took a quick peek at a motion file uploaded to the member's downloads, and it looked binary glop...

ScuD
07-09-2008, 11:41 AM
uhm.. what's binary glop?

Adrenalynn
07-09-2008, 11:50 AM
uhm.. what's binary glop?


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Or slightly more intelligibly:



0001400: 53 69 74 64 6f 77 6e 55 70 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 'SitdownUp .'
0001410: 20 20 20 20 02 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 6a ' . j'
0001420: 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 'UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU'
0001430: 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 'UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU'
0001440: 20 40 ce 20 32 03 fc 20 04 03 20 02 20 02 20 02 ' @. 2.. .. . . .'
0001450: 20 02 20 02 20 02 1f 01 e1 02 52 20 ae 03 e3 02 ' . . .....R ....'
0001460: 1d 01 20 02 20 02 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 '.. . . @ @ @ @ @'
0001470: 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 0a 1e ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @..'
0001480: 20 40 ce 20 32 03 fc 20 04 03 20 02 20 02 20 02 ' @. 2.. .. . . .'
0001490: 20 02 20 02 20 02 d0 01 30 02 b4 01 4c 02 2a 02 ' . . ...0...L.*.'
00014a0: d6 01 20 02 20 02 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 '.. . . @ @ @ @ @'
00014b0: 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 01 1e ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @..'
00014c0: 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @'
00014d0: 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @'
00014e0: 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @'
00014f0: 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 20 40 ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @'


"glop (glŏp)



n. Slang.
A soft soggy mixture, as of food: cafeterias serving nondescript glop.
Something, such as a piece of writing, that is judged to be worthless."
The American Heritage&#174; Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright &#169; 2007, 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company (http://www.answercentral.com/main/Record2?a=NR&url=http://www.eref-trade.hmco.com/).


*emphasis on second definition mine, for purpose of illustration

ScuD
07-09-2008, 12:04 PM
Ah, well, that explains :veryhappy:

Guess my english needs a little work..

DresnerRobotics
07-09-2008, 12:10 PM
Naw, to be honest your English is vastly better than the majority of people who speak it as a primary language on the net.

Adrenalynn
07-09-2008, 12:44 PM
There is absolutely no way to tell that English isn't your first language, ScuD, so please don't fret over it.

I have a negative tendency to fail in the avoidance of eschewing obfuscation in my communiqu&#233;. ;) [I over-complicate my writing].

It's absolutely my failing, not yours.

trey3670
07-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Do they publish the file format for their motions files, or has anyone figured it out? I took a quick peek at a motion file uploaded to the member's downloads, and it looked binary glop...
so far all questions related to the sdk cd have been met with "sorry only way to get it is with expert kit" as for the glop,it slightly,very slightly resembles what you work with in robot terminal. any luck with c tom?


this looks very cool
http://www.tribotix.com/Products/Tribotix/MCU/HyInt_info1.htm

DresnerRobotics
07-09-2008, 03:14 PM
this looks very cool
http://www.tribotix.com/Products/Tribotix/MCU/HyInt_info1.htm


You know, I saw that awhile back and didnt take much notice of it... looking close: Holy crap. Native onboard Robotis servo control at full 1mbps, wifi, flash drive, that thing is awesome! Already emailed them to inquire on the price

Adrenalynn
07-09-2008, 03:35 PM
Running a Geode LX. I have a couple of those here. Cute embedded processor. Basically a '386.

trey3670
07-09-2008, 03:37 PM
let us know what they tell ya on the price,sounds like the answer to a bunch a headaches

ScuD
07-09-2008, 04:15 PM
aw shucks, you guys'll make me blush :p

That Hyint does look pretty powerfull, wonder what the pricetag is.

Which gets me thinking, at work we build wireless routers, meaning a wifi router with an HSDPA/HSUPA internet connection, but in effect it's little more than an arm9 with massive ram and a wifi chip...
Makes me wonder if it could be hacked as a robot processor :tongue:

But here comes that 'I need to know exactly what makes it tick-factor" again.. I'd feel a lot better with a simple controller that does exactly what i want it to do and nothing more.
This kind of reasoning has set me back with massive experience though, since I always try to push more and more out of a small controller instead of just starting out with a more powerfull one.
Ah well, one day i'll live by K.I.S.S....

Adrenalynn
07-09-2008, 04:16 PM
Some of the dLink and Linksys products certainly could. They're quite beefy little linux machines...

ScuD
07-09-2008, 04:32 PM
exactly, i've seen some projects on those. Problem is though, they're usually designed with one single purpose in mind, and have little or no external interfaces or GPIO, except for a UART.

Although it would be ideal for massive math calculations..

Adrenalynn
07-09-2008, 06:45 PM
All it takes is an I2C bus somewhere on there with an unsuspecting surface trace. A little razor knife, a little jumper - what is it you wanted to control again? ;)

ScuD
07-10-2008, 02:55 AM
Myself, for starters..

Adrenalynn
07-10-2008, 03:26 AM
ROFL! Good luck with that.

There's a SPI interface to memory on my old 802.11a Dlink. I haven't found anything more useful yet, but I've yet to look up a couple suspicious chips.

tom_chang79
07-14-2008, 10:33 AM
so far all questions related to the sdk cd have been met with "sorry only way to get it is with expert kit" as for the glop,it slightly,very slightly resembles what you work with in robot terminal. any luck with c tom?


this looks very cool
http://www.tribotix.com/Products/Tribotix/MCU/HyInt_info1.htm

No, not much activity on this at the moment. I did download the 1.0 manual from Robotis' site, which does explain the programming in C towards the end of the manual...

I'm a little preoccupied at the moment on two things right now. The first is trying to get my Biped Scout back to its original glory with some more powerful servos (5990TG), and the second thing is trying to get back into the RC scene (my BJ4WE is finally getting my attention again with a new local track)...

You all will be the first to know when I make any progress at all... I believe to get started, you need to get AVR-GCC and all of its associated libraries (perhaps a few that was made by members of the Bioloid community)... The first thing I'm planning to do is to implement the source code given in the 1.0 manual...

trey3670
07-14-2008, 12:37 PM
sweet buggy,engineering on it looks superb!

ScuD
07-14-2008, 03:19 PM
I got my Bioloid kit!!!! :D:D:D

=> back to work now

trey3670
07-14-2008, 03:51 PM
good for you scud!

Zenta
07-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Hi,

I've recently got the comp. kit. And I'm doing some test with the AX-12+. Right now I'm a bit dissapointed about the output running torque, I measure a max running torque of about 6 kg/cm. The holding torque are great, but the running torque :sad:. I'm using the motion editor to test the servo, also used the robot terminal with same result. Refering to the AX-12 manual it's possible to adjust the torque.. But I've not figured out how to yet. Are the torque set to max as default? Are my readings about the running torque correct?. Right now I'm feeling that ordinary servos like the 5645 hitec have stronger running torque. Not what I expected...

-Zenta

JonHylands
07-18-2008, 01:14 PM
The torque values are at their maximum as a default. Are you doing your tests running off battery, or are you running off wall power? What voltage do you read from the servos? (read control table entry 0x2A, then divide by 10.0 to get volts).

Zenta
07-18-2008, 01:40 PM
The torque values are at their maximum as a default. Are you doing your tests running off battery, or are you running off wall power? What voltage do you read from the servos? (read control table entry 0x2A, then divide by 10.0 to get volts).
Hi,

I read 12,3 volt. I'm using the wall power. Have you measured your servos? I'm using a digital fish scale hooked on a bracket at about 2cm from center of servo axis. I'm reading about 3 kg running torque, that gives me 6 kg/cm I think...

JonHylands
07-18-2008, 02:20 PM
I haven't measured mine, no...

Try setting the punch register to various values between 0 and 0x3FF (control table entry 0x30, 0x31).

Zenta
07-18-2008, 02:28 PM
I haven't measured mine, no...

Try setting the punch register to various values between 0 and 0x3FF (control table entry 0x30, 0x31).
I'll try that. Btw I did some more testing on the running torque and came up with about 7,5 kg/cm. The speed is an important factor too i guess. But I think I'll have to dig more into this...

But it would be interesting to hear if anyone has done this test.

Thanks Jon!

DresnerRobotics
07-18-2008, 02:37 PM
Zenta try using this program as well: http://www.forestmoon.com/Software/DynaCommander/

Dynacommander provides easy GUI access to all the registers of the servo, will allow you to play around with it dynamically.

Something doesn't sound right about that though... the stuff I'm doing with my biped right now simply could not be accomplished if the servos only had 6kg-cm of torque.

Adrenalynn
07-18-2008, 04:01 PM
Yup - that's about 1/3 of the advertised stall torque.

Zenta
07-18-2008, 08:05 PM
Dynacommander provides easy GUI access to all the registers of the servo, will allow you to play around with it dynamically.

Something doesn't sound right about that though... the stuff I'm doing with my biped right now simply could not be accomplished if the servos only had 6kg-cm of torque.

Thanks for the tip Tyberius. That program was very easy to use.
About the torque. The holding torque are awesome (advertised to be about 16,5 kg/cm at 10v), but I've tried changing the punch and torque are set to max. And I still get the same result, about 7 kg moving/running torque (that is not the same as holding torque, of course). I've tested several servos with the same results. I've stressed them until they got overheated :robotsurprised: too.

The reason for why I'm doing this test is that I'm planning to make a custom robot and I've to know what dimensions I can calculate with.

So again, it would be great to hear if someone else could make this test. What I did was to mount one of the F2 brackets on the servo and hooked a fish scale into the square hole at the corner of the F2 brackets. The hole is about 2,2 cm from the servo axis and the scale measures about max 3,5 kg (3,5*2,2 = 7,7 kg !?) moving torque. At higher loads the servo will not move.

Does Dynamixel say at what rate the moving/running torque is? (not the holding torque....)

Zenta
07-18-2008, 08:24 PM
Hi again!

I came over this information (http://robotsaustralia.googlepages.com/ax-12dynamixelinformation) about AX-12's loading torque.
Conclusion of this somewhat patchy testing is that the servos are generally usable with a torque loading of about 6 or 7 kg.cm, and use up to 12.6V seems to be ok.

It seems like mine measures was not so very far from the truth after all. LOL
But it did surprise me a bit though.

Adrenalynn
07-18-2008, 08:35 PM
Those are somewhat disappointing results, but I really appreciate being able to memorize that datapoint for later. Thanks for doing the homework!! +rep

Zenta
07-19-2008, 03:51 AM
Hi,


I tryed to dye the bioloid brackets in black. It didn't come out exactly the way I wanted, LOL.
http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/5/3/5/bioloid_dyed_02.jpg

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/5/3/5/bioloid_dyed_01.jpg

But IMHO it wasn't that bad either. I did know that the brackets wasn't nylon, but I just had to try ;).

Btw I'm very impressed of the construction and how well the brackets fits. Great product.
But a bit disappointed about the load torque....

Zenta
07-19-2008, 05:07 AM
Hi,

I did the torque test again, this time with this setup:
http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/5/3/5/bioloid_torquetest_01.jpg

0,5 kg load at 12cm distance between axis servo to COG of the load. That gives me about 6 kg/cm loading torque. I bet I could add one extra kilo to test the holding torque. But it was the running/loading torque that was interesting. The servo handled this load quite good, but it had problem when adding much more load than this.

JonHylands
07-19-2008, 08:27 AM
Zenta,

Have you done these types of tests with any other kinds of servos?

- Jon

Zenta
07-19-2008, 08:51 AM
Yes, but only with the fish scale not like the last test with the .5 kg load at 12cm. I've tested the Hitec MG645, it managed about 6,6 kg/cm load/running torque at only 4,8 volts!

ScuD
07-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Hmm these measurements sure put things into perspective..
ATM i'm satisfied with the bioloid servos though, given their price / abilities.


While I'm here, does anyone have a clue as to the use of the "movement pages" on the bioloid?

Are they just represented as lookup tables which the bot runs through?

DresnerRobotics
07-20-2008, 07:50 PM
Hmm these measurements sure put things into perspective..
ATM i'm satisfied with the bioloid servos though, given their price / abilities.


While I'm here, does anyone have a clue as to the use of the "movement pages" on the bioloid?

Are they just represented as lookup tables which the bot runs through?


Pretty much, yes. You can tell pages to lead into another one and create longer sequences. Basically you call up X page to run and it will run through that page and any other pages you have linked to it.

trey3670
07-21-2008, 12:27 PM
in response to my inquiry of pricing on the hyint,
"Hi Wes,

Yes, the HyInt is a direct replacement for the CM-5 - the only real problem maybe that it is a 3-stack system and therefore doesn't fit into the Bioloid CM-5 case. But electronically, it is an AMD 500MHz Geode capable of talking to AX & DX/RX modules which can run either windows or Linux.

The price is currently $US1,250 but we are trying to get this down to $US999 - problem is the CM-iGLX boards cost us $US700, pretty close to 60&#37; of the RRP. If you live somewhere where Compulab have distributor we can sell the HyInt minus the CM-iGLX and you could source the CM-iGLX yourself."

dang its gonna take allot to justify that.

Zenta
07-29-2008, 02:27 AM
Hi,

I recently saw a movie on youtube of a hexapod that looked like a Phoenix but with 18 AX-12's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyS0_f_DV94.

This hexapod are made of one Lynxmotion hexapod kit, 18 Ax-12's and using Jon Hyland's USB interface (I think). A man from Sweden (called evilMachina) made this robot, pictures can be found here (http://evilmachina.com/gallery.aspx).

He modified the tibia part to make it fit with the AX-12's.

Cool project!

4mem8
07-29-2008, 03:10 AM
Nice, I would like to see more on this use of those AX servos, Nice find.

JonHylands
07-29-2008, 08:15 AM
This hexapod are made of one Lynxmotion hexapod kit, 18 Ax-12's and using Jon Hyland's USB interface (I think). A man from Sweden (called evilMachina) made this robot, pictures can be found here (http://evilmachina.com/gallery.aspx).

I've sold a USB bus board to a couple people in Sweden, so it wouldn't surprise me...

- Jon

Alex
07-29-2008, 12:21 PM
This hexapod are made of one Lynxmotion hexapod kit, 18 Ax-12's and using Jon Hyland's USB interface (I think). A man from Sweden (called evilMachina) made this robot, pictures can be found here (http://evilmachina.com/gallery.aspx).

Wow, that hexapod is awesome!

How come no one has invited this guy to the TRC:p

Adrenalynn
07-29-2008, 12:54 PM
If Tyberius wasn't afraid of it, he already would have invited him... :p

Zenta
07-29-2008, 02:40 PM
Wow, that hexapod is awesome!

How come no one has invited this guy to the TRC:p

Hi Alex,

I already did that, he said he wanted it to walk properly first, then he will post it.

GregHayden
08-12-2008, 11:32 PM
I wanted to know if anyone has any ideas on how to change the code for the cliff detection car so I can use the U and D buttons change the speed of the vehicle while the program is running.

edit by Alex: Thread merged with Ultimate Bioloid Thread

Alex
08-13-2008, 10:33 PM
bump. Cleaned merged thread up a bit.

Primarch
08-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Does anyone have information on the new Bioloid kit that is supposed to be released
in the near future?

I have heard rumors about a new controller board with sensor inputs, a PS2 style controller,
and updated brackets.

Whatever information you can provide would be great! I don't have a Bioloid kit yet. I finally
have enough money saved up. I'm anxious to get one, but I don't want to 'jump the gun' if
a better kit is to be released soon. I left an e-mail at the Robotis site but I've yet to hear from
them.

Thanks for your help in advance!! =)

- Marc

Alex
08-19-2008, 10:23 PM
The last I heard, there's no date set for the new kits, but they are supposed to be released some time this fall. I saw the new humanoid out at RoboGames and it is awesome! The board and battery are now separated, with the battery being lower towards the waist, lowering the center of gravity and making it more feasible to use in competitions. From what I could see, there appeared to be two configurations, one geared towards Robot Soccer, one for fighting. The difference were where 2 extra DOF were located.

There is going to be a PS2 style controller with the new Bioloid kits, but I don't believe it had analog joysticks.

BTW though, I just read here that StuartL is making a pretty interesting bus device to control the current Bioloid with a PS2 style controller. It acts similarly to an AX-S1:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?t=2273

Primarch
08-19-2008, 10:36 PM
Thanks for the update Alex!

It looks like I might have to wait a little longer to get one.
It sounds like it will be worth the wait though! I was hoping to have
it by my vacation in October. I guess I'll have to find something
else to play with!!

billyzelsnack
08-23-2008, 10:19 PM
The last I heard, there's no date set for the new kits, but they are supposed to be released some time this fall. I saw the new humanoid out at RoboGames and it is awesome! The board and battery are now separated, with the battery being lower towards the waist, lowering the center of gravity and making it more feasible to use in competitions. From what I could see, there appeared to be two configurations, one geared towards Robot Soccer, one for fighting. The difference were where 2 extra DOF were located.


Do you happen know if the AX12+ is going to updated will there be an upgrade path of the other bits for current owners? Also, from the looks of this pic.. http://www.robotis.com/zbxe/gallery_ko/4944 and the this vid.. on youtube YouTube - New Bioloid Humanoid Robot that he gains a servo in each arms, but loses a servo in each hips???

DresnerRobotics
08-24-2008, 05:35 PM
Do you happen know if the AX12+ is going to updated will there be an upgrade path of the other bits for current owners? Also, from the looks of this pic.. http://www.robotis.com/zbxe/gallery_ko/4944 and the this vid.. on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaPzR-sCqAQ that he gains a servo in each arms, but loses a servo in each hips???

I doubt the AX-12+ will be updated any time soon seeing as though its very solid for a 'low end' servo. They have the DX and RX series for the higher end market.

I asked the same thing at Robogames (as the hip servo they removed made zero sense), and the Robotis reps told me it was just for that particular display robot as it didn't actually walk.

tom_chang79
08-25-2008, 12:57 AM
My opinion, the only way to improve on this servo but keeping the cost relatively low would be to make the gear train metal... But I wonder how much weight this would add to this bot? Perhaps in Titanium, but that would drive the cost sky high! If made out of steel, then it would be cheaper, but it would add a lot of weight. I think the nylon gears inside are quite strong and if you do break them, that's a lot of force seeing as how they are strong enough to hold 200oz/in of load...

The black brackets are pretty snazzy, but that's just cosmetics I guess, the more impressive thing would be to see some cool gaits like the one from Spain, the one with the axe hand.

Wasn't Robotis supposed to come out with a Robo-One upgrade kit (the axe hand) for the Bioloid? Whatever happened to that idea? The metal brackets offered by Crustcrawler would be a quicker way to get it up to metal-bracket based, but their brackets are incomplete. There are a couple that are missing from the basic Bioloid kit...

mdda
09-21-2008, 12:05 AM
News on the bioloidcontrol.sourceforge.net open-source project :

There's now a physics simulator in the bioloidcontrol project. It is a close-to-realistic simulation of the bioloid humanoid robot. Here are some key features :

* Written in C++ : with a decent object hierarchy (IMHO)
* Complete bioloid bus simulator drivable via TCP (all commands)
* Realistic physics : dimensions, masses, inertias taken from Portugeuse research group
* Robot parameters created from Excel file (via a perl-to-XML translator)
* Bioloid components (servos, IMUs, etc) react to bioloid message packets realistically
* Code is readable and extensible (and open source)

At the moment it's just accessible via SVN, and only tested on Linux. There are full instructions on building and running the simulator at :
http://bioloidcontrol.sourceforge.net/index_new.php?category=11 (http://bioloidcontrol.sourceforge.net/index_new.php?category=11)

If there are problems it's probably my fault, and I'd be happy to help out with any vitual robot problems : BioloidControl (at) PLATFORMedia.com

Have fun!
Martin
:-)

Adrenalynn
09-21-2008, 12:14 AM
Holy Cow, Martin! That's awesome!

Please consider adding it to the "Links Directory" over on the left.

Wow!

4mem8
09-21-2008, 01:35 AM
Very interesting Martin, I admire ppl that can do this sort of stuff. Real cool.

Zenta
09-21-2008, 07:34 AM
Wow! That's incredible cool!
Very interesting, great work Martin.

-Zenta

srobot
10-20-2008, 11:59 PM
This topic has been dead for a few weeks now.

What Bioloid mods are people working on now or looking to do in the future?

This winter (within the next 5 months), I want to make a custom "backpack" to reduce the size, and will try to be fully running on LiPo! Maybe next summer I will switch over to GumStix also!

Currently I'm finding sources for the lipos.

What I actually get done with this really depends on cost. Plus I am trying to save some money to go to RoboGames 2009 (which is looking like it will cost ~$1,000USD for flight, hotel, and taxi/car for 5 days)!

Edit --
The "Smart Bracket System" from CrustCrawler looks cool also!

http://www.crustcrawler.com/motors/AX12/brackets.php?prod=68

I will see how much making my own brackets cost too!

DresnerRobotics
10-21-2008, 12:13 AM
I'm currently building an Xbee based Bioloid controller, essentially a replacement for the CM-5 (should be a bit smaller, not sure how well it would fit in the torso without heavy modification though.

This would allow Xbee (rather than the stock zigbee) communication to the bioloid bus, similar to how the USB Bioloid controllers work. You can shoot commands directly to it, without having to deal with the weird CM-5 communication formfactor.

Still a work in progress, I have the module built but it still needs a bit of tweaking before its going to be ready.

4mem8
10-21-2008, 12:23 AM
I look on with interest Tyberius.

srobot
10-21-2008, 12:34 AM
This would allow Xbee (rather than the stock zigbee) communication to the bioloid bus, similar to how the USB Bioloid controllers work. You can shoot commands directly to it, without having to deal with the weird CM-5 communication formfactor.

Tyb - I forgot to tell you that at iHobby I was using Zig100 for all PC - Robot communication. In my house, which is not in a city, I can get a range of over 20 feet through walls (at iHobby I was getting ~10 feet). My remote that connects wirelessly to my Win PC looses connectivity before the Zig-100 does!

That is one thing I am trying to improve by using a GumStix, going directly remote to robot, not remote to computer then computer to robot.

I could also try doing this with my I/O board from HUV Robotics.

Gorbag
10-21-2008, 06:49 AM
A bit of Robotis news:

I had written Robotis recently about the SMPS2Dynamixel (a fused board that supplies power to the Dynamixels when used with the USB2Dynamixel without having to create (ugly) splice. It appears on the Korean, but not the English version of their site, though it is referred to in the USB2Dynamixel manual. Here's their response hinting at new products soon.


We will be getting many new parts/products updated on our website at the end of this month. You may check with Trossen or other US distributor by the end of the month. They should be carrying most of our items by then.

On a more personal front (developing for Bioloid in a MacOS environment) I've pretty much given up trying to get new kernels for the gumstix built under MacOS, and am in the process of building a Debian based virtual machine to run under Parallels. I still hope to do my development under MacOS using the avr tools available under Fink, but the number of patches I was having to perform to get the OpenEmbedded distro compiled under MacOS was never ending - I trust someone more interested in Linux will take up that particular thread... or someone who knows better than I do (I've googled OE and Mac without much luck other than reports of others giving up). I'm just trying to get a Lisp up, somewhere, to be in the robot control loop (most of my AI tools are in Lisp), so don't really need a large sidetrack at this point ;-)

More info when I get something working (or hit another major branch in the effort).

srobot
10-21-2008, 08:06 PM
Anyone know of a WinXPe computer that will fit in a Bioloid? I don't need an on board screen.

I've been thinking about using a GumStix until now. I would still like to use this nice board, although I don't think I will be able to figure out all of the linux and C stuff :( (or is it easier once you get started?). Would the GumStix BIOS support installing XPe on a 1 or 2 GB chip?

DresnerRobotics
10-21-2008, 08:12 PM
I've got a 500mhz Pico-ITX board from VIA that can run without a heatsink... I suppose its possible, but I don't see what advantage over just having a zigbee connection would be.

Gumstix can run Windows CE 6.0, which in turn can run .NET framework 3.5, so you could very well run a C# or VB app from one.

Adrenalynn
10-21-2008, 08:13 PM
Windows XP Embedded does run on the XScale. Getting the BIOS and drivers to play nice might be nigh-on impossible though. If you don't need anything like the Bluetooth, you might get away with it.

srobot
10-21-2008, 08:24 PM
Gumstix can run Windows CE 6.0, which in turn can run .NET framework 3.5, so you could very well run a C# or VB app from one.

Great, that is exactly what I am looking to do!

Do you have any instructions on how to boot it, or is it like normal?

I am looking at buying the XL6P, so no BlueTooth:

http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=210

Or I may get the complete computer kit:

http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=202

Thoughts?

DresnerRobotics
10-21-2008, 08:34 PM
Great, that is exactly what I am looking to do!

Do you have any instructions on how to boot it, or is it like normal?

I am looking at buying the XL6P, so no BlueTooth:

http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=210

Or I may get the complete computer kit:

http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=202

Thoughts?


Personally, for a windows CE machine I'd go with the XL6P, and I would want to build my own housing. That's just me though.

Here's all the info you need to get started with Windows CE on a Gumstix: http://www.codeplex.com/GumstixIII

Specifically, check out this: http://www.codeplex.com/GumstixIII/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Documentation&referringTitle=Home

srobot
10-21-2008, 08:46 PM
Personally, for a windows CE machine I'd go with the XL6P, and I would want to build my own housing. That's just me though.

Here's all the info you need to get started with Windows CE on a Gumstix: http://www.codeplex.com/GumstixIII

Specifically, check out this: http://www.codeplex.com/GumstixIII/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Documentation&referringTitle=Home

Wow!

Thank you Tyb!

I will have to read through this all.

xx2747
10-25-2008, 03:15 AM
Okay,
This is kind of off-topic right now, but any idea when new Bioloid will come out?
I really like the design of it...

openmindedjjj
10-27-2008, 08:13 PM
im not shure! um is there even a new bioloid.. i have not heard of anything.. if so someone tell me where i can see him!! plus im still trying to figure out the first bioloid. i just added 4 extra servos so i have to re-type a lot of the motions with robot terminal.
the next bioloid better have a camera. even tho the first bioloid had a camera it was only available if you spent 4,000 dollars and paid for the expert kit! which i was not willing to pay that much extra for pretty much the same robot plus a few extra servos and frame set which sepretly only cost a few hundred. i think the expert kit was overpriced by about 1,500 bucks,

DresnerRobotics
10-27-2008, 08:44 PM
There actually is a new bioloid, that was displayed at Robogames 2008. That's why people are talking about it as a reality. It has a black bracket system, new chest and head shell, and a redesigned CM-5 with an externally mounted battery for placement at a lower COG.

The camera is available directly from Robotis, and is also still available in the expert kit, which is $2,999. It contains:

2 Bioloid CM-5 mcu (Atmel ATMega128) controller
21 Dynamixel AX-12+ serially controlled servos
3 Dynamixel AX-S1 sensor module
2 Rechargeable NiMh battery pack (9.6V)
Programming Utilities (freeware)
1 Switch Mode Power Supply
Serial Cable (9pin D-type)
2 Bioloid Comprehensive Frame Set
1 ZIG-100 Wireless Communication Module Set
1 Zig2Serial Adapter
1 USB2Dynamixel Adapter
USB2Dynamixel cables
1 Screwdriver
1 Wireless Camera Set (Camera and Receiver)
Bioloid Comprehensive Kit Quick Start Manual
Bioloid User Guide
Bioloid Expert Kit Manual
Basic CD with Software
Expansion CD with Software
C++ language programming examples
Hard Aluminum Case

I haven't added everything up, but the camera unit is rather expensive, so I'd wager the Expert kit adds up closer than you'd think.

openmindedjjj
10-28-2008, 03:40 AM
thats good news for me i love my bioloid robot! do you know when he goes on sale and where can i see pics of him! i tried googleing " new bioloid robot and couldent find anything
where can i see him? im excited i need a pic :D

ok so i did some searching and found this robot just by goin to robotis.com who is the maker of the bioloid.. is this the black robot you guys are talkin about.. this is the only thing i could find!

http://www.robotis.com/zbxe/layouts/xe_official/images/img_ko/sub/img_2.jpg

billyzelsnack
10-28-2008, 12:14 PM
The only thing I have seen is this clip on youtube..

YouTube - New Bioloid Humanoid Robot

I don't think that's the full deal as using that hip configuration I don't think that it'd even be able to walk.

DresnerRobotics
10-28-2008, 12:35 PM
They said at Robogames it was set up that way just for display, they added the hip servos to the arms to give it more expressive capability. The demo didn't once walk.

openmindedjjj
10-28-2008, 04:03 PM
i would love to buy this new bioloid robot! here is a video!
hopefully this one goes for sale!! what do you guys think! YouTube - Research Assistant URIA : DigInfo

srobot
10-28-2008, 04:27 PM
i would love to buy this new bioloid robot! here is a video!
hopefully this one goes for sale!! what do you guys think!

I think it will be well over $4000 USD ;)

When I saw this robot it was very cool!

xx2747
10-30-2008, 01:50 AM
Well,
I'm not an owner of the Bioloid, but wouldn't you be able to make the "new bioloid" presented in RoboGames by adding two extra sevos in the arms? Every other part of the new robot except the chest looks same to me.
I also saw this new bioloid (not the URIA) on Robot Magazine. It was with all the other humanoid robots that competed in the competitions. I'm guessing it has been in a kung-fu match?

openmindedjjj
10-31-2008, 12:40 AM
i agree with xx2747 i havent read anything on the new bioloid like new features it has but by just looking at it, i would say it looks just like the first bioloid with just 2 extra arm servos! but my bioloid allready has those extra servos on the arm.. that was one of the first thing i did to him. he now has
22 dof but other than a new chest plate.. dose anybody know whats new about the new bioloid?

DresnerRobotics
10-31-2008, 01:03 AM
There actually is a new bioloid, that was displayed at Robogames 2008. That's why people are talking about it as a reality. It has a black bracket system, new chest and head shell, and a redesigned CM-5 with an externally mounted battery for placement at a lower COG.


Quoted from the previous page in this thread.

Gorbag
10-31-2008, 07:30 AM
Is this "new bioloid" different from the Uria?

The Uria, per the voice track in the movie has a full-up PC running XP running in the chest with a display; the robot as a whole has USB, Lan, VGA, Wifi, Microphone, USB Camera, FSR (?) InfraRed and 6 Axis Gyro. The current Bioloid has the Mic and InfraRed, so that's quite an expansion of sensing and onboard computing capability.

Presumably one can dump XP for Linux for those of us who prefer a OS that wasn't designed for 8 bit processors. ;)

Alex
10-31-2008, 09:29 AM
yes, much different. The Uria is a research platform more or less. The new bioloid is practically the same size as the current bioloid and last I was told, the target price is slightly higher than the comprehensive kit price. Obviously at this price, it can't have even half the features of Uria;)

According to what I was told by Robotis out at RoboGames, there are actually going to be two different versions of the new bioloid. One of them is going to have an extra DOF on each arm, which they said is going to be the fighting version. The other version is for soccer, which is going to have an extra DOF in each leg.

I'm wondering if the black brackets that the new bioloid(s) were made out of at RoboGames are going to be in the production run? Many of you probably recall that when Bioloid first started advertising their bot, it was all black brackets as well, but didn't get put into production.

openmindedjjj
10-31-2008, 08:23 PM
thanks alex for all the info! so did they say anything about software or is it all the same as the old bioloid?

xx2747
11-02-2008, 12:13 AM
If the new bioloid is coming out after all, it better have a remote control...

DresnerRobotics
11-02-2008, 01:45 AM
The remote controllers are already available. We should have them in stock within the next week or two.

Alex
11-03-2008, 11:17 AM
thanks alex for all the info! so did they say anything about software or is it all the same as the old bioloid?


No word on the software yet, but I'm sure we'll all know soon:)

StuartL
11-07-2008, 06:34 AM
As of last night our Playstation interfaces for the Bioloid bus became pre-production reality... you'll wire in a standard PS1/2 wireless receiver to the board which is self powered off the Bioloid bus.

We've a few minor kinks to iron out in the software (no double-click detection in hardware yet, few bus bugs) but we're not far from demo boards and expect to have a few demos available in time for the UK Robotics convention on Saturday 29th November in Birmingham.

openmindedjjj
11-07-2008, 06:30 PM
sounds good i cant wait to buy one
:D

Gorbag
11-08-2008, 11:18 AM
I just noticed the HUV robotics boards previously available here at Trossen have been severely curtailed. Is this a temporary condition? I had plans to acquire a IMU board at some point...

Adrenalynn
11-08-2008, 12:02 PM
If'n you want one, get it now. Rumor has it that Jon is getting out of them.

srobot
11-08-2008, 02:37 PM
If'n you want one, get it now. Rumor has it that Jon is getting out of them.

Yup, that's true.

They are very nice boards (I have all of them except the USB to BUS) so if you think you will use one in the future, get it now!

openmindedjjj
11-09-2008, 01:49 AM
wait y is he gettin out of them?? :( is there a new one comming out or is he tired of them and dose not wana sell them anymore???

Adrenalynn
11-09-2008, 02:29 AM
I don't know what Jon's take on it is, but from what I've seen posted on the forum, there's a lot of work invested for very little return, and then people expect a turn-key solution rather than appreciating that it's just the hardware starting point. I think a lot of times people are expecting to unwrap a humanoid and have it walk the dog and do the laundry rather than appreciating that this is all experimental and that the hardware is only a portion of the whole picture.

MikeG
11-09-2008, 06:51 AM
Check out the eval boards from FTDI. These guys can provide USB access to the AX-12 bus
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FTEvaluationKits.htm

If you want more customizable solution take a look at the Parallax Propeller.
http://www.parallax.com/tabid/407/Default.aspx

I wrote an assembly driver for the AX-12 bus, it's a free download. Anyway, the driver w/wrapper allow slower micros to jump on the AX-12 bus or you can run directly from your PC at 1Mbps or stand alone.

What's nice about this using Prop is you can incorporate all kinds of devices in your design. Parallax has a bunch of open source objects...

openmindedjjj
11-09-2008, 02:18 PM
thats too bad i really wanted to get one. :( dose anybody know where else i can buy one??

Obscene
11-15-2008, 12:17 PM
Hey guys. I've always had an interest in robotics, and just recently started checking out Lynxmotion (and I really like the freedom of creativity associated with SES). But in all honesty, to build a Biped from Hitec servos was going to cost way too much. The Bioloid seemed like the perfect kit for me after doing the research.

Before I dished out the near $900, I spent a lot of time reading this thread, and multiple others, and I must say, you've all really helped me already as far as understanding what I'm getting into.

I've already ordered non-abrasive wiring protection and a Hozan screwdriver set, so I'm ready to assemble 'Loid as soon as he gets here.

Something I'm interested in is the ability to make the walking gait on the humanoid as natural looking as possible (isn't this everyones dream?) and I understand that a gyro or at least an accelerometer is needed for this application. I noticed that the IMU system was available, but won't be any longer?

Math has never been my strong point, in Trig anyway, so I'm not sure I'd be at all up for programming with classical physics in mind.

But, I'm willing to put my mind to the task, so if you guys have any info as to how anyone is going about getting a gyro to work with the Bioloid, I'll take any reference into consideration.

Thank you for your patience. :)

-Chris

lnxfergy
11-15-2008, 02:27 PM
I wouldn't worry about the Bioloid bus IMU not being available, there are plenty of IMUs that are not bioloid specific which you can use. In fact, as I recall, one of the issues with the Bioloid bus IMU was the bus getting busy, and the IMU not updating quick enough.

Given that, any gyro/IMU/accelerometer will work for your Bioloid just like for any other walking robot. Quite frankly, this is a tough problem and is still a very open research issue, so I don't think you will find any pre-canned ready-to-go solutions out there. Just google humanoid and walking, etc.. and start reading.

-Fergs

Obscene
11-18-2008, 07:12 PM
I got my Bioloid in last night, spent 6 hours putting it together and making sure the torque on each screw was sufficient. The humanoid is great and I enjoy it for sure, but the software is a bit buggy.

In the Motion Editor, when I create a pose, and then turn off the servos, and change the pose, then try to mirror the pose I had made before, the robot begins to try and contort itself, closing its arms and legs beyond their freedom of movement, etc., so I have to switch it off.

Also, a lot of the time, when I "Play" a sequence, the "Stop" button will not stop the sequence, but instead just locks up the program (I think this has to do with the fact that it's interfacing through the serial port, causing data flow interruption, or maybe even corruption of the data.)

I did run the assembly-check program and it checked out fine. The demo, etc. work fine.

Does the software upgrade on the Robotis website actually fix any of the major issues with the software? The bug report within the download didn't seem to say much, and the problems listed had nothing to do with any problems that I've had.

Also, straight out of the box, my battery will not charge. Is the fuse that comes with the kit a replacement, or do you have to put it in yourself before you can charge the battery? I would assume that there is already a fuse in the CM-5?

Thanks for any help you guys may be able to provide.

openmindedjjj
11-18-2008, 08:31 PM
the fuse is a spare. and to charge to charge your robot you have to turn him on and then hit the u button to begin chargeing!! i have gone through about 4 fuse so far and i got my robot about 5 months ago.. for some reason it allways seems to blow the fuse when im programing him but ive never had a problem with my bioloid as far as programing goes.. the problem with programing the robot and not stoping when you hit stop is that sometimes if your makeing a long motion sequence and you hit stop half way through the sequence.. it has to finish the sequence before it can stop. well thats what mine dose anyways. there are a few bugs and if you have no experience in robots like i did..sometimes figureing everything out especally in robot terminal is frustrating to say the least but when you get it figured out is kinda easy. if you have any qustions just let me know.

Obscene
11-18-2008, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. I guess the fuse already blew out-that sucks! Because I do seem to remember having turned it on, the power LED flashing like it was charging, then just quit. I wonder if there is a better fuse that could be used with the CM-5 board.

I'll do some research and let you know.

Also, from what I hear, the battery doesn't last very long with the advanced constructions, but maybe a li-ion will work better? I'll look into the battery also.

Adrenalynn
11-18-2008, 10:33 PM
Don't up-current the fuse. Just don't. A fuse is called a fuse for a reason... Any time you think you need to upsize a fuse, look for the problem causing the current-draw.

Obscene
11-18-2008, 11:02 PM
Maybe the power/charger adapter is the culprit? The fuse blowing out and making the Bioloid un-chargeable seems to be a pretty common problem.

tom_chang79
11-19-2008, 12:41 PM
Sorry, don't mean to steal the focus of the fuse blow-out problem, but I wanted to ask, what is this Bioloid kit upgrade that I've heard?

Something about upgraded CM5 and/or upgraded sensor/sensor port? Also new brackets??? Is this refering to the black Bioloid that was shown at Robogames?

I thought that the black Bioloid kit was simply an aesthetic upgrade with documentation of an alternate humanoid configuration of creating a humanoid???

Obscene
11-19-2008, 12:50 PM
Sorry, don't mean to steal the focus of the fuse blow-out problem, but I wanted to ask, what is this Bioloid kit upgrade that I've heard?

Something about upgraded CM5 and/or upgraded sensor/sensor port? Also new brackets??? Is this refering to the black Bioloid that was shown at Robogames?

I thought that the black Bioloid kit was simply an aesthetic upgrade with documentation of an alternate humanoid configuration of creating a humanoid???

Not sure, but it would be cool to get my hands on that. Hopefully it comes with a USB2Dynamixel and a remote control?

Adrenalynn
11-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Sorry, don't mean to steal the focus of the fuse blow-out problem, but I wanted to ask, what is this Bioloid kit upgrade that I've heard?


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