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View Full Version : [Bioloid] Questions about Bioloid - Buyers Guide



DresnerRobotics
04-04-2008, 05:18 PM
EDIT BY ALEX: Moved posts from Bioloid 2DOF thread (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?t=1619) into this thread



wow seeing things like this is really making me have a hard time deciding between a robonova and bioloid... i would love to get them both but i can only get 1 :sad:... bioloid has been getting alot of neat mods lately but robonova keeps coming back to haunt me with the mods that are being done to it also. I guess what im looking for is the best educational and expandable robot of them both.


I would say the Bioloid is is MUCH higher on the expansion scale, seeing as though its modular. You also get serial, stronger, and feedback capable servos.

Wingzero01w
04-04-2008, 09:37 PM
Thanks tyberius, but how is the education part of it compared to the robonova- Does it teach more/easier to learn?

DresnerRobotics
04-04-2008, 10:22 PM
Well I don't own one (yet), but in my opinion its all around better than a robonova. As far as education, look at it this way- it's reconfigurable. With a single bioloid kit, you can reconfigure it to be a hexapod, quadrapod, wheeled bot, various bipeds, a 6+ axis arm, etc. It also comes with a range/sound sensor unit, and a GUI program interface for autonomous programs and 'pose and capture' sequencing software.

The robonova is sort of a one trick pony. It's a humanoid, but not nearly as flexible in construction- it's servos arent as strong and dont provide the same level of feedback. If you're looking for JUST a humanoid, and something to compete with, you might look at a Kondo or something along those lines...but between a bioloid and robonova its a clear choice for me.

tom_chang79
04-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Wing! Glad to see you on these boards as well. To answer your question, I think it's all relative. You can just about learn with any of the robot kits out there... My first learning was from the Lego Mindstorm RIS 2.0 kit. One of the engineering classes I took covered real-time OS in an embedded environment, so it involved the Mindstorm Brick with a language called Esterel(?). I think more then software, I learned more on mechanical creation since when I finished the programming tasks, I ended up modifying the default tracked rover by reducing parts (less weight) and still come up with the same, if not stronger, structural integrity.

I think once you buy your first biped, your $$$ investment will drive you to learn more and more about the bot, more then just the canned moves...


----------------------

Getting back to the subject, Alpha's Bioloid is sweeeeeet! That thing looks awesome. I remember seeing the earlier Bioloid Humanoids with a waist configuration like that since it came with an extra AX-12+. I guess he married the waist rotate with the "bow" configuration to get a pan-and-tilt effect...

I'm glad to see more and more Bioloid Videos on youtube. :D

asbrandsson
04-06-2008, 10:08 AM
Well I don't own one (yet), but in my opinion its all around better than a robonova.
Hello,

I have both and I would say that the Robonova is the better humanoid robot, but that you can make more with less effert with the Bioloid.

I also think that both are ok in their basic format, but both companies should put more effert into supplying a robot that already comes with things like cameras, grippers and more developed programs. Basically it if fun to develop stuff like that yourself, however, it seems to me like I am more or less re-inventing the wheel instead of really developing something new.

Asbrandsson

DresnerRobotics
04-06-2008, 10:52 AM
Hello,

I have both and I would say that the Robonova is the better humanoid robot, but that you can make more with less effert with the Bioloid.
Asbrandsson

Could you elaborate why you think the Robonova is better? I don't own either, but have done extensive research in making my choice as to what kit to buy next... Bioloid just seems better all around. It's cheaper, reconfigurable, and the servos are stronger.

RKM83
04-06-2008, 12:04 PM
Hey-

I agree with Tom, you can learn from any robot kit you buy, but it comes down to what you want to do with your robot. The Bioloid might be the most flexible (just look at Alpha video), but I see no mention of the KHR-2HV which is a well rounded kit (especially for competition).

Wingzero01w
04-06-2008, 12:42 PM
Well the two main factors of the robot i want to buy would be what i learn from it - but when i say this i mean what will i learn from it that will help me in future robots/mods. The second factor would be the number of things you can do to modify it. Im only looking to build a humanoid, any other robot i make will be coming from lynxmotion parts and such.

DresnerRobotics
04-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Hey-

I agree with Tom, you can learn from any robot kit you buy, but it comes down to what you want to do with your robot. The Bioloid might be the most flexible (just look at Alpha video), but I see no mention of the KHR-2HV which is a well rounded kit (especially for competition).



If you're looking for JUST a humanoid, and something to compete with, you might look at a Kondo or something along those lines...but between a bioloid and robonova its a clear choice for me.

:D

Do you own a Kondo btw? I'm curious about the expansion capabilities of them.

asbrandsson
04-06-2008, 08:39 PM
Could you elaborate why you think the Robonova is better? I don't own either, but have done extensive research in making my choice as to what kit to buy next... Bioloid just seems better all around. It's cheaper, reconfigurable, and the servos are stronger.

Hello,

It is hard to explain and really see when you are looking at the Robonova humanoid and the bioloid humanoid. But the Robonova is designed to just be a humanoid robot - so things like tilt sensors and gyros are in the expansion loop as add ons. With Bioloid there is no gyro you have to just program the walking or running motion to make them work smoothly, even the blue tooth module has to be soldered together, and in order to use the actual high end servos you have to replace the mother board with a different one.

I agree that the servos are stronger - which is kind of a piss off with Robonova as once you start to upgrade you realize that the servos will blow if you do not replace them with better ones. But the brackets are made of alum not plastic so they are a lot stronger and less frustrating. The whole thing with the nut and screw is totally frustrating for me, I have spent more time screwing around with screws then enjoying the robot.

Bioloid uses a double bracket system where one group of servos is doubled up, which is hard to explain without having one. Robonova servos are stacked in a very linier way, but they do not have complete rotation which is frustrating when it comes to the shoulders.

I am also the kind of person that does not really care about the re-configureable part. If I want a robot dog I will buy an Aibo. Bioloid kits are really made for teaching kids about robots starting off with a very simple robot and then ending up with a humanoid robot at the end of the classes.

My main thing is making Humanoid Robots - I think that it is very much like making that Johnny five robot. You wanted to make it and you have - now you have added some upgrades and what not, but are you going to make a different project that is more advanced with the knowledge that you have gained or are you going to take him apart and make a dog or spider out of it?

Asbrandsson

Wingzero01w
04-06-2008, 10:02 PM
Hey asbrandsson,

Thanks for that comparison of the two as im deciding which one to invest in. As im assuming you have the robonova, how is the education of it to the user- does it teach more or less than the bioloid assuming you only make the humanoid out of it. Also, would it be better to buy the kit all at once or in pieces (brackets, servos, controller, etc) ?

asbrandsson
04-06-2008, 11:46 PM
Hello,

I find that the Robonova program language is easier to understand. At least on a basic level. I think that they are both good for learning different aspects of humanoid robotics. I think that useing things like a tilt sensor and the gyros make the Robonova a little more useful, the same with Grippers and double knees. Both of which I will be using on any humanoid that I make, as the double knee is fantastic and the Grippers if coupled with a force sensor can allow the Robot to manipulate objects even if only on a basic level. Things like a Gyro are self evident - although I have yet to get one to work (the one I bought did not work with the robonova).

One of the draw backs of both is that there is no real PC direct way to control the robot. There is alway the task of writing routens and then basically you will have a pc in contact with the robot that will make it initiate the routens depending on a sort of if ~ then situation. I would like a servo controller with a GUI that has real time control of servos built into it. Especially since a pc could process the proper movement from sensor data much quicker then a microcontroller.

To be honest though - after buying both and some other Robots like the ER-1 and I-droid. I would say just make your own. From whatever kit you start from you will see the good points and bad points and then how far reaching the kit can be. This is the whole reason why I bought the CNC machine. Now I can make custom brackets, including a custom body. My work this year will be to build a Robot that basically uses the ER-1 GUI (or some hybred vision / oratory based system), the I-Droid head and the modified body of a Robonova, with some kind of onboard duo or quad core processor. Which lets face it if this kind of robot was commercially available everyone would have one.

Asbrandsson

LinuxGuy
04-06-2008, 11:50 PM
It is hard to explain and really see when you are looking at the Robonova humanoid and the bioloid humanoid. But the Robonova is designed to just be a humanoid robot - so things like tilt sensors and gyros are in the expansion loop as add ons. With Bioloid there is no gyro you have to just program the walking or running motion to make them work smoothly, even the blue tooth module has to be soldered together, and in order to use the actual high end servos you have to replace the mother board with a different one.
OK, so for yourself, it seems that you just want something that works out of the box with no more additional effort than absolutely required. Is that correct? This may not be true for another person though. For instance, I would never buy a robot like the Robonova. I would rather have something I can build and add on to. I am starting out with a Lynxmotion BRAT (http://www.lynxmotion.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=97). I can go a lot of different directions with the BRAT, including adding arms, extending the legs with a double knee (already designed one for the SES), try different modifications to the legs, add a pan/tilt "head" to it, etc. OR, I can eventually decide to just take it apart and build something completely different. You can't do that with a Robonova, but definitely can do it with Lynxmotion's Servo Erector Set or the Bioloid kits.

A person really needs to define what they want to do with a Humanoid or any other robot before they can make a good choice of what robot or kit they should purchase. Personally, I think a robot that can't be taken apart, rebuilt, or modified easily, is a waste unless all you want to do is compete, but then is your robot really your robot? By that I mean is it something you've made your own with modifications and additions? Do you understand how it works and why it works that way?

Maybe you are more interested in the software aspects of robotics, and that's cool too. If you just want to write software, then pick any fully assembled robot or robot that is just one thing and go to it. Actually, I am also more interested in the software aspects, but I still want something I can build up, modify, experiment with, and add on to.


I agree that the servos are stronger - which is kind of a piss off with Robonova as once you start to upgrade you realize that the servos will blow if you do not replace them with better ones.
If you build a robot from a kit, other than something like a Robonova, you will know how it is put together. Yes, you will have to deal with many screws. I don't really like that either, but I have come to terms with it and am OK with it now. :happy:

However, and I can not emphasize this enough, when you build it, it is YOUR robot. There is an amazing rush that goes with the first time you see YOUR robot take a step, avoid an obstacle, roll around, or otherwise move in its environment successfully. When you build YOUR robot, you can decide what kind of servos you will need because you will have, or should have, some sort of vision of where you want to go with it and can plan ahead.


But the brackets are made of alum not plastic so they are a lot stronger and less frustrating. The whole thing with the nut and screw is totally frustrating for me, I have spent more time screwing around with screws then enjoying the robot.
I have heard the Bioloid brackets are quite strong. Have you built a robot of any kind yet? Are you planning to?


Bioloid uses a double bracket system where one group of servos is doubled up, which is hard to explain without having one. Robonova servos are stacked in a very linier way, but they do not have complete rotation which is frustrating when it comes to the shoulders.
The more I read of your message, the more I think that you will never truly get what you want in a robot unless you buckle down, come to terms with screws and nuts as I have :happy:, and build the robot you want.


I am also the kind of person that does not really care about the re-configureable part. If I want a robot dog I will buy an Aibo. Bioloid kits are really made for teaching kids about robots starting off with a very simple robot and then ending up with a humanoid robot at the end of the classes.
I think you are fooling yourself a bit here. Would you really be happy with an Aibo for long?? What you buy is pretty much all you get. Sure, the Robonova can be upgraded, but there are those nasty screws and nuts to deal with to accomplish it. I think there is much more to kits like the Lego NXT and Bioloid than you are giving them credit for. I would like to have both kits because each one has different things to teach me that I just have to unlock. It's all in the imagination.


My main thing is making Humanoid Robots - I think that it is very much like making that Johnny five robot. You wanted to make it and you have - now you have added some upgrades and what not, but are you going to make a different project that is more advanced with the knowledge that you have gained or are you going to take him apart and make a dog or spider out of it?
I don't think Andrew will be done with his Johnny 5 for a long time. There are too many cool things he can do with it, either in hardware, software, or both. He has not finished it yet and might not for a long time. :happy:

8-Dale

Wingzero01w
04-07-2008, 12:12 AM
Hey robotguy, it looks like i can always rely on you to see a good answer to a question ;)

Well after the post you just made, it made me put the bioloid on the front to get. The #1 thing im worried about is money, im still not old enough to be racking in enough money to get whatever i want. My concern with the bioloid is that i cant use any other servos with it which TBH is a real real annoyance/letdown. The thing robonova was able to give me was the option to use any of the other hitec servos with it with a few mods of course. Right now i just have me simple Brat and my freshly made Boe bot, which is begging for mods. I know humanoid with lynx brackets i also possible, but i havent seen anything that great come from it and not many people have done it. Im also a huge fan of the ankle & foot servos on the same plane like with the bioloid humanoid.

Alex
04-07-2008, 03:25 PM
Well after the post you just made, it made me put the bioloid on the front to get.Awesome to here wing.

I was going to recommend the bioloid, but I wanted to see what everyone else had to say first. The main reasons I recommend the bioloid are for the reconfigurability (is that even a word?) and the hacking potential and the servos are the most advanced on the market (for the price). Sure, out of the box the bioloid doesn't have a bunch of sensors that you can use, but the communication is standard RS-232 and all the commands are published, which means that with a little effort, you can create your own mods and connect virtually anything you want to the bioloid system. Just have a look at some of the wicked mods that Jon Hylands has created (http://www.huvrobotics.com/shop/)


My concern with the bioloid is that i cant use any other servos with it which TBH is a real real annoyance/letdownI can understand your frustration here, but once you start using the AX-12's, you'll see that there's a TON packed into them. They're far more advanced than any other hobby robotics servo. IMO, well worth the tradeoff.

Don't get me wrong, the Robonova is an excellent humanoid kit, and there is a lot to learn from it. The language is way easier than the bioloid and the GUI's are a bit easier (at least for me) to get the hang of. But, the programming language (RoboBasic) is proprietary, meaning you'll only be using the language for the Robonova. You can't take the experience you gained from learning the programming language and apply it to other areas of robotics. With the bioloid, once you get into the more advanced methods of interaction, you're learning how to communicate with it at the serial level, which can be applied to many areas of robotics.

Wingzero01w
04-07-2008, 04:44 PM
Hey thanks for the answer Alex,

Well ive decided to experiment with the bioloid its been hanging on to me for a long time and it sounds really interesting. I guess i just needed that reassurance from the community on this decision. Right now i just feel bad about taking over this thread so im going to be making a new one for my project.

Alex
04-07-2008, 04:51 PM
Right now i just feel bad about taking over this thread so im going to be making a new one for my project.

No reason to feel bad;) I just realized now how bad we hijacked this thread, haha:D

If everyone wants, I can move these posts about the bioloid recommendation to a new thread entitled anything you guys want. Instead of agreeing/disagreeing with this idea here in this thread, please PM me about this. Unless I hear from everyone that participated in the recommendation, I'm not going to move anything cuz the last thing I want to do is piss anyone off.

RKM83
04-07-2008, 08:49 PM
:D

Do you own a Kondo btw? I'm curious about the expansion capabilities of them.

Yes, I've added gyros and accelerometer will be adding the RSS-01 (hip pivot kit) soon. I'm also working on some other mods, but nothing like AI-Bot's modified KHR2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nITt-DL1ycw

LinuxGuy
04-08-2008, 10:42 PM
Well after the post you just made, it made me put the bioloid on the front to get. The #1 thing im worried about is money, im still not old enough to be racking in enough money to get whatever i want.
I am planning to get a Bioloid Comprehensive Kit at some point, but am going to build it up a bit at a time. You can buy just the frames kit for $99.00 and then add the AX-12 and other modules as you can afford them. This is exactly what I am going to do when I start building up my Bioloid kit.


My concern with the bioloid is that i cant use any other servos with it which TBH is a real real annoyance/letdown. The thing robonova was able to give me was the option to use any of the other hitec servos with it with a few mods of course. Right now i just have me simple Brat and my freshly made Boe bot, which is begging for mods.
True, you have to use the Bioloid servos, but these are very cool and have capabilities other servos don't give without serious modifications like conversion to Open Servos (http://www.openservo.org). The Bioloid servos are also more powerful that many standard servos in the same price range.


I know humanoid with lynx brackets i also possible, but i havent seen anything that great come from it and not many people have done it. Im also a huge fan of the ankle & foot servos on the same plane like with the bioloid humanoid.
There is always the possibility of creating a hybrid connection bracket that would allow using Bioloid brackets with Lynxmotion SES brackets. Think about the options that would give you.. This could probably also be done with the Robonova brackets also. Hmmm, facinating.. I need to get some dimensioned drawings of the Bioloind and Robonova servos. :veryhappy::veryhappy: I've been thinking about hybrid brackets for the Bioloid/SES brackets for awhile.

8-Dale

Wingzero01w
04-09-2008, 09:00 AM
Hey robotguy,

i was thinking that same exact thing yesterday, im thinking about doing some kind of project that involves a BS2sx controlling some bioloid servos. Problem: i have no single idea/clue on how to control it. The main thing i would like to do is somehow control the bioloid servos with thte SCC 32 but at the same time get the feedback from the servo like the CM-5 does. Got any ideas?

tom_chang79
04-09-2008, 10:21 AM
You really can't and shouldn't use the SSC-32 to control the servos for the Bioloid. The Bioloid has a serial interface where you are passing packets (or frames rather) of data back and forth on a single wire bus. Essentially, it's very similar to a SPI and I2C interface, where you are sending an identifier, then data.

What the SSC-32 does in its basic function, is pulse-width modulation, which means that it is putting out a pulse on the line with varying duty cycles to the servos because standard servos are controlled in that fashion. The AX and RX series of servos are different in the fact that it has a servo controller packed into each unit, so you manipulate the movement of a servo by sending packets. Ofcourse, the AX and RX servos have more things built into them such as temp sensor, load sensor, and etc...

The things that really got my business in purchasing the Bioloid are:

1) The AX-12+ servos are torque monsters compared to the other servos packed into other humanoid kits. (www.robotservicesgroup.com (http://www.robotservicesgroup.com)).

2) These servos are packed with features, such as serial interface, sensors, etc...

3) The wide brackets that are implemented at the ankles and the hip of the humanoid configuration, which keeps the length at one-servo length but with 2DOFs. The only other bot I've seen implement this is the Futaba RBT or HPI's Grobot.

4) The default software suite, such as the motion editor (I know, the software suite packed in is a love-or-hate relationship ;))

5) Wiring scheme. Since it's all daisy chained, the wiring seems to be much much cleaner then other bots that uses "star-span" technique, although this is a one-time setup/cleanup so it's not that critical.

6) Pricing/Packaging - Pricing was great (bought mine here at Trossen ;)) the packaging was awesome too, very professional-looking like the Lego Mindstorm kits. The pricing criteria will make or break those of you out there like me with a tight budget.

Edit: 7) The two extra DOFs for hip rotation. I think this is critical when making your humanoid turn around in place. I, for one, do not like the fact that bipeds does the "slide" or the side-way shuffle to get around... For me, having these two extra DOFs at the hips for hip rotation, are a critical factor in a biped walking scheme. Some example of this are also implemented on the KHR-1HV, Futaba RBT/HPI Gr-1.


Overall, the Bioloid has a lot of potential, but there is one that is lacking is a Gyro. I suppose one can make their own Gyro with tilt sensor coupled with a compass chip and etc. JonHylands have made some IMU boards that he sells that interface to the CM-5 (the module interfaces to a TTL Multidrop scheme that the AX-series and CM-5 uses). I believe srobot have already used it successfully to do his cartwheeling activity with his Bioloid.

One thing that is interesting to note. Even without a gyro/tilt sensor, the servos are capable of sensing "loads" placed on them (holding torque applied to hold a position), and I've seen a handful of videos that demonstrates balancing schemes using the load sensing data gathered from the servos of interest...

Overall, I think any and all humanoids out there are awesome. Variety is the spice of life, and if I had the chance to choose again, chances are about even that I choose any one of them out there. They all have a community and a large user group, can't go wrong with any of them. Just pick one and start having fun with it!

:D

asbrandsson
04-09-2008, 10:21 PM
OK, so for yourself, it seems that you just want something that works out of the box with no more additional effort than absolutely required.

8-Dale
Hello,

I think that the whole experience with robotics should be were people are building up present knowledge by adding to it, not just re-inventing the wheel.

You can learn a lot about computers by building a commadore 64, but why not start with a plateform that incorporates modern technology, and then work at making it better.

So it is not so much that I am looking for something out of the box that works bang, but with things like a double knee or grippers I think that a robot should come with that as a standard item, the same as tilt and gyros and even a camera so that you, me and the rest of the people interested in robotics are not just re-inventing the wheel.

Speecys -101C makes a good development robot that has those features, and although a person ends up with a lot of programing work.

http://www.planetspeecys.com/?q=node/15

At least you are learning with a cutting edge robot plateform. And this is really more what I would like to see a bioloid (which is more what the expert kit is) or robonova come out with. The I-droid is like that as you have to get 75 some odd magazines to build the robot, and it does have a gripper and camera.

With that being said I have a comprehensive Bioloid kit, and a robonova with Grippers and double knees. And I have learned a lot from both, and I still have a lot to learn from them. And more to add to them - but it feels more like inventing the first airplane a second time and less like jet propultion.

Asbrandsson

tom_chang79
04-11-2008, 10:07 AM
I think the biped humanoid to watch for is Kumotek's KT-X:

http://www.roboporium.com/KT-X.html

Also, another one, the Robovie:

http://www.roboporium.com/roboviem_v2.html

These two looks great to develop on, especially the KT-X. However, I've yet to see a support group that discussed any of these two bots as distribution of these two bots seems to be very limited...

IMO, I think for the price of the Robovie, one can build a much more sophisticated, much more powerful bot (hardware wise) with Lynxmotion brackets and Hitec's HSR-5990TG servos.

If you are really richie rich, you can go for Robotis' Cycloid, which is DX-117-based bot http://www.tribotix.com/Products/Robotis/Humanoids/CycloidII_info1.htm

For me, a sub-$900 biped humanoid with 18 16.5kg/cm torque servos, a sensor, a control unit, a battery, a wall pack (AC to DC powersource for power and charging), extra brackets, and everything you need to get started, was the best value that I could find.

Sure, Kondos are quite refined with biped humanoids, Robonovas have been out for a long time, but the Bioloid has the torqiest and most sophisticated servo mechanism out of the bunch within this price range, and in the end, if you want to do anything sophisticated software-wise, you have to have the hardware portion in place and not have to worry whether your servos can perform the things you program.

I've tried to bang away at the software with my Biped Scout with the H645MG servos (133 oz/in at 6.0V), and I couldn't really get it to do anything other then lift one leg up while standing still. As soon as it started on the "stride" motion (legs scissored), the servos could not hold position...

I think the Bioloid is an excellent choice for a biped humanoid. It has its Pros and Cons. The best place to read about them are the success stories as well as the troubleshooting threads on these forums or on forums like Robosavvy....

Alex
04-14-2008, 10:40 AM
I think the biped humanoid to watch for is Kumotek's KT-X:

http://www.roboporium.com/KT-X.html

Yeah, I'm pretty excited to check this bot out too! The specs make it sound pretty impressive, but I have to see it in action and play with it a bit before I say anything about it.

The Robovie though has been around for a while and I hardly ever hear anything about it. It's kind of surprising because it sounds like a neat humanoid. I'd be really interested to hear of anyone's experience with this humanoid (in a new thread of course:)).

tom_chang79
04-15-2008, 09:44 AM
The only thing I noticed about the KT-X that was lacking IMO was the hip rotate. I think the hip rotate should be standard these days. One of the hot mods that I've seen in the Robonova community is people adding an extra 2DOFs on the hips. I think the way humanoids turn without it is goofy looking. The second thing that should be nearly standard is to have two DOFs in the same plane sort of speak. These are the two factors that sold me on the Bioloid. The Futaba RB-T has these two features as well, but the price tag is waaay too fancy for me... The Futaba is an awesome bot though, have never seen a robot that had enough torque in the servo and move that quick.

I think the Bioloid is an excellent value. I've seen many online-robot stores carry them now, I wonder if we'll see more of these in competitions like Robo Ones and our own Robogames...

Wingzero01w
04-15-2008, 10:10 AM
I agree after doing research on the bioloid i trust that it will be good. I just ordered a Ax-12+ to do expierements on, and try to make different communication with different controllers. So far ive seen the servo have the most features for the price out of any other servo.

asbrandsson
04-15-2008, 08:23 PM
If you are really richie rich, you can go for Robotis' Cycloid, which is DX-117-based bot http://www.tribotix.com/Products/Robotis/Humanoids/CycloidII_info1.htm


Hello,

I think that CycoidII is awesome. I wish that there was a Robot kit like that commercially available for a regular price.

Asbrandsson

Sigma X
12-02-2008, 04:03 PM
so would any of you would suggest a bioloid for custom humanoids?

openmindedjjj
12-02-2008, 11:57 PM
i would!!! i have a huminoid that has custom legs and arms.. its a bioloid and it was pretty easy to upgrade to my likeing.. you can see my custom legs on my pics if you view my profile..
i have a bioloid and i highly recomend this robot because it has the strongest servos and the robot comes with sound,light and distance sensors. well its one sensor that dose it all. but i dont know of anyother robot that comes with sensors.. stock. for that price

Sigma X
12-03-2008, 09:53 AM
I had no idea well I guess that makes my decision clear
a bioloid beginers kit then.

Obscene
12-03-2008, 11:46 PM
I had no idea well I guess that makes my decision clear
a bioloid beginers kit then.

In my opinion, it's worth it. You can always add on to the kit by purchasing the frame kit and extra servo's as you go along. The good thing about Robotis is that they give you so many options as far as parts and upgrades, and I'm willing to bet those options will continue to increase in the near future.

Sigma X
12-04-2008, 08:52 AM
from what I've seen so far I believe it
but here's another question
is it best to start out with a beginers kit rather than a comperhensive kit?

DresnerRobotics
12-04-2008, 10:01 AM
If price is not an object, get the Comprehensive kit without a doubt. You're pretty limited as to what you can build with the beginners kits in terms of walking robots, its more just a set meant to get beginners acquainted with the Bioloid system.

Sigma X
12-05-2008, 12:08 PM
well price is a BIG problem for me but also I wanna learn about the bioloid system
plus I wanna learn and take my time to build Them

Sigma X
12-08-2008, 12:44 PM
you know I now have a question for the bioloid kit
how are the servo's connected can I use somthing like a ssc 32
or somthing else

DresnerRobotics
12-08-2008, 01:54 PM
First of all, I highly recommend that you check out our product pages on the Bioloid system. (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/bioloid-robot-kits.aspx) It has answers to a lot of the questions you're asking.

The AX-12s are an entirely different type of servo than what the SSC-32 can control. The SSC-32 controls standard PWM driven hobby servos, where the Bioloid system uses advanced smart servos which are controlled via a daisy-chained serial TTL network. The Bioloid kits come with a CM-5 controller which is programmable and takes care of servo control and power.

Sigma X
12-09-2008, 10:18 AM
ok I checked it out and you said daisy chained servos
i'm liking this kit more and more thanks Tyberius

randall
11-08-2010, 06:01 PM
hello,

I was going to start a new thread but I thought it this one fits perfectly for the info I need to know.

I'm currently coming to the end of my saving up stage and I've decided to purchase a bioloid, this is purely being bought as a hobby but at the same time time I do want to learn more about robotics so I'm hoping this is for the long haul.

I was looking at purchasing the comprehensive set because I can start with the small stuff and work my way up to the more advance projects like the hexapod and humanoid but then I kinda hit a crossroads. Since I saved up this much, it won't take much more to get the premium set and already I was going to buy the USB Dynamixel adapter therefore making it even less of a difference in price(like I said I've already saved this much). My biggest problem is I don't see anywhere where it say's I can build the 26 projects from the other kits with this one? So I'm just wondering if I can get some advice as to what route I should take. I'm looking to make this purchase "future proof" but I don't want to sell my self short on the valuable info that's offered with some of the earlier smaller builds.

here's what's rolling around in my head:

~ does the premium set include the comprehensive bracket set?
* if so then I'm guessing all I would need is a ACS1 sensor block and then I can use the comprehensive guides and be on my way? *


~ if the premium kit doesn't contain all the pieces I need what would I need to purchase?


...wow I guess there's not that much rolling around in my head? any help would be appreciated!

RobotAtlas
11-08-2010, 07:35 PM
I'm the owner of comprehensive kit and I think it's plenty enough to get started.
One advantage of comprehensive is you can buy it used (I bought used).
Here you can choose from 3 different kits for $700:
http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?t=4447
Billy is a good guy. I would trust him.

Since you mentioned hexapod and "future proof", you might also want to wait till the end of this week to look at yet another option: InterbotiX. See this: http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?t=4312&page=2
That is what will get you to advanced stage - far beyond what Bioloid's controller can do.

Do you mind sharing with us why do you want to lern about robotics?

randall
11-08-2010, 08:17 PM
thanks for replying RobotNV and thanks for the links, I'll have to sit on them and weigh my options.

I have absolutely no problem getting the comprehensive set I'm pretty sure it's more than enough, I guess I just needed to hear it from someone with some experience!

As for why I want to learn robotics? well mainly as a hobby to entertain myself, I like to learn about things I find interesting. I also make wine but 98% of the time it just sits there. :veryhappy:

SteamAutomaton
11-08-2010, 09:27 PM
hello,

I was going to start a new thread but I thought it this one fits perfectly for the info I need to know.

I'm currently coming to the end of my saving up stage and I've decided to purchase a bioloid, this is purely being bought as a hobby but at the same time time I do want to learn more about robotics so I'm hoping this is for the long haul.

I was looking at purchasing the comprehensive set because I can start with the small stuff and work my way up to the more advance projects like the hexapod and humanoid but then I kinda hit a crossroads. Since I saved up this much, it won't take much more to get the premium set and already I was going to buy the USB Dynamixel adapter therefore making it even less of a difference in price(like I said I've already saved this much). My biggest problem is I don't see anywhere where it say's I can build the 26 projects from the other kits with this one? So I'm just wondering if I can get some advice as to what route I should take. I'm looking to make this purchase "future proof" but I don't want to sell my self short on the valuable info that's offered with some of the earlier smaller builds.

here's what's rolling around in my head:

~ does the premium set include the comprehensive bracket set?
* if so then I'm guessing all I would need is a ACS1 sensor block and then I can use the comprehensive guides and be on my way? *


~ if the premium kit doesn't contain all the pieces I need what would I need to purchase?


...wow I guess there's not that much rolling around in my head? any help would be appreciated!
Dear Randall:
I bought a new Premium earlier this year and a used Comprehensive recently from Tom Chang79.

The differences are mostly in their target audience. The Premium is setup more for remote control, where the Comprehensive is setup as a learning platform.

The Premium has most of the brackets of the Comprehensive, the bodies, batteries, and controllers being different. As for the AX-S1 it is built into the Premium controller with the IR sensors being external.

I believe you can build the Comprehensive projects with the Premium provided you can deal with the slight body/ sensor differences.

The biggest question that could determine your course of action is what are your final plans? Remote control, autonomous, or Arbotix?

I hope this was helpful.

Yours,
SA;)

RobotAtlas
11-08-2010, 09:43 PM
The biggest question that could determine your course of action is what are your final plans? Remote control, autonomous, or Arbotix?


Just to clarify what SteamAutomation said, Arbotix can do both RC and autonomous.
Look for Pi Robot to see an example of autonomous.

SteamAutomaton
11-08-2010, 09:48 PM
Just to clarify what SteamAutomation said, Arbotix can do both RC and autonomous.
Look for Pi Robot to see an example of autonomous.
Yes, and if you are going with Arbotix, I would go with the Comprehensive Kit.;)

Yours,
SA;)

randall
11-08-2010, 10:22 PM
thanks for the help, I'll start checking out some Arbotix stuff to see what it's all about but for now I think I'll go with the comprehensive set. I've been reading the manual and the quick start guide and it seems pretty well rounded for someone just starting out and beyond.

just a quick question, do I need the Dynamixel adapter if I'm just sending a program or can I use any USB to serial converter? the one I was looking was the Inex UCON232S.
http://www.robotshop.ca/inex-ucon232s-usb-to-serial-2.html

thanks



edit: never mind I found it on page 11 of the quick start guide, looks like I should be good.

"If your PC does not support Serial COM Port, install USB2Serial converter.
USB2Serial converter is a device that converts USB port to Serial COM Port and
can be easily found in PC accessory corners."

UncleBob
11-09-2010, 06:00 AM
I think premium kit is neater and can do more than comprehensive kit. The controller is smaller and lighter.

If the price difference is not too much go with the premium.

DresnerRobotics
11-09-2010, 11:27 AM
Dear Randall:
I bought a new Premium earlier this year and a used Comprehensive recently from Tom Chang79.

The differences are mostly in their target audience. The Premium is setup more for remote control, where the Comprehensive is setup as a learning platform.

The Premium has most of the brackets of the Comprehensive, the bodies, batteries, and controllers being different. As for the AX-S1 it is built into the Premium controller with the IR sensors being external.

I believe you can build the Comprehensive projects with the Premium provided you can deal with the slight body/ sensor differences.

The biggest question that could determine your course of action is what are your final plans? Remote control, autonomous, or Arbotix?

I hope this was helpful.

Yours,
SA;)

Actually, The Bioloid Premium will shortly have all (and more) of the build projects that the Comprehensive offers. English translations will be available shortly:


http://support.robotis.com/ko/product/bioloid/premiumkit/download/bio_prm_beginner_apps.htm
http://support.robotis.com/ko/product/bioloid/premiumkit/download/bio_prm_intermediate_apps.htm
http://support.robotis.com/ko/product/bioloid/premiumkit/download/bio_prm_advance_apps.htm

randall
12-03-2010, 07:52 PM
I noticed ROBOTIS updated their e-manual with the english translations for the beginners,intermediate and advance bots for the premium kit.

http://support.robotis.com/en/
sorry... I tried linking to the pages but it keeps bringing me to the whole manual?

Thanks for everybody that gave some advice, it was a close toss up between the comprehensive and the premium but in the end I settled for the premium (I don't think I would of if Tyberus hadn't of shared the info above!), not to mention I had six years worth of piggy banks waiting to be cracked open for such an occasion :)

robandix
01-17-2011, 08:58 AM
Hi,

i plan to get a bioloid kit. But i want to interface all of my robots with the sensors,mic,camera and processing capabilities of my Android smartphone.
So i need a bluetooth interface. I did some search, but found only a few (and older) hacks (and it seems only for the old CM-5, not for the new CM-510).e.g. http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/04/adventures-with-bioloid.html

So my question is if there exists an easy solution to give a bluetooth interface to the bioloid CM-510 ?
Best of course would be a bluetooth module ready to mount :-)


regards

robandix

DresnerRobotics
01-17-2011, 12:03 PM
Hi,

i plan to get a bioloid kit. But i want to interface all of my robots with the sensors,mic,camera and processing capabilities of my Android smartphone.
So i need a bluetooth interface. I did some search, but found only a few (and older) hacks (and it seems only for the old CM-5, not for the new CM-510).e.g. http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/04/adventures-with-bioloid.html

So my question is if there exists an easy solution to give a bluetooth interface to the bioloid CM-510 ?
Best of course would be a bluetooth module ready to mount :-)


regards

robandix

There are two methods of communication with a CM-510 (and CM-5 for that matter).

There is the RS-232 serial cable connection which is used for programming and interfacing with the Roboplus Motion program. It's used for 'development' work in that you generally keep your robot connected to your PC in this manner while you develop motions and program Roboplus Task files.

There is also a Zig-110 connection which provides you with a Zigbee wireless connection to either a) Boomerang Handheld Zig Controller or b) a Zig2Serial adapter.

This Zig-110 wireless connection does not have the same function as the RS-232 serial cable connection in that you cannot program the CM-510 or interface the Roboplus Motion editor with it. Using the handheld controller you can send 'execution' commands to your CM-510 (Button 4 = Motion Page 5, etc), provided that you have written a Roboplus Task program to listen for and respond to commands (for example, the default humanoid task code), and downloaded it to the CM-510 (using the RS-232 cable). You can also use the Zig2Serial as an interface and write programs on your PC to communicate with the CM-510 in a 'command' manner, where the CM-510 thinks it's talking to a handheld controller. If this is fine with you, good news; Robotis built their software and hardware specifically to work like this.

If you're looking for a wireless RS-232 replacement cable, it could be more troublesome for you. You'd either have to find a drop in RS-232 to Bluetooth/Xbee interface and plug that into the 3.5mm jack, or you'd have to crack open the CM-510 and locate the TX/RX lines between the RS-232 interface and Atmega chip, and splice in there.

kamondelious
01-17-2011, 08:06 PM
Hey robandix,

Depending on the USB capabilities of your Android phone, you might be able to make use of the HUV Bioloid Bus Board (providing you can find one) or the USB2Dynamixel (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/robotis-bioloid-usb2dynamixel.aspx) in place of the CM-5(10) and eliminate the need for bluetooth control. Android has the FTDI driver available, so either of those should work if your phone has the USB support to do it.

Cheers,

:D

robandix
01-25-2011, 03:12 PM
Thank you Tyberius and kamondelious,

As i don't want to root my Android i can't use the USB interface.
But today i manged it to connect my CM-510 to my Android HTC Hero with an BlueSerial adapter
as i mentioned here: http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?t=4631

thank you

robandix