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metaform3d
05-17-2008, 07:22 PM
Finally got enough of the systems together to be able to take some photos of my bartender bot.

Front on, showing the main turntable top and the syringe that acts as booze siphon in the center:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/cimg1646_thumb.jpg (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=247&c=newimages)

3/4 view, showing the bottle rack, coolant system and heat exchanger:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/cimg1647_thumb.jpg (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=248&c=newimages)

The frame is welded steel and extruded aluminum, and most of the working parts are made from laser-cut acyrlic. The tank in the front is for icewater for cooling, and the rack can hold six identical Belvedere vodka bottles.

I chose the bottles because they have a similar combination of clear and frosted glass with blue highlights which match the colors and textures of the acrylic parts. (The orange cable tie ruins the look -- imagine it not there...) Ultimately the guts underneath will be surrounded by a cylindrical casing (hopefully of clear and translucent acrylic), and at the top of the central mast there will be a touch-screen interface.

The wooden base is also a stand-in, as eventually it's intended to be mounted on a wheeled platform for autonomous service. Although getting this thing to move will be a bear -- it's going to weigh a *ton* fully loaded. It might end up as more of a kiosk than a robot.

Adrenalynn
05-17-2008, 07:31 PM
It's gorgeous!

That, and it looks yummy too... ;)

LinuxGuy
05-17-2008, 08:00 PM
Finally got enough of the systems together to be able to take some photos of my bartender bot.
Very cool and interesting! You could end up with something of a money maker once you get this working and all the bugs out. Buggy drinks might not taste good. :wink:

8-Dale

metaform3d
05-27-2008, 08:41 PM
iLush mixed its first drink by itself last night!

I'm still using water with food coloring in it rather than expensive booze, and the cooling system was inactive, but the software basically worked. Ok, there's also a problem with the calibration for really dry martinis, but I'm working on that. It's a huge milestone for system integration. I also destroyed the shaft coupler in the linear actuator last night by activating the siphon while the main valve was closed, but I was able to replace it in about an hour. I've updated the software to prevent that situation in the future.

Thanks for the positive comments! I thought about commercialization, but in its current incarnation maintenance and cleaning would be prohibitive for the home user. It's very much a prototype.

My wife and I have an open house / cocktail party every last Friday of the month, so I hope to get some videos of the iLush in action this Friday. Stay tuned. Maybe even the cooling system will work! Anyone in the SF Bay Area is welcome -- send me a private message for info.

Assuming I can get the calibration right there are two other things I want to work on before RoboGames in June. I would like to make the whole system mobile by adding a pair of large, high-torque wheels, or I could add a set of LEDs that would play a pattern of light over the clear and translucent plastic while the rest of the robot makes the drink. (It would be entertaining; it's really slow!) Which do you think would go over best with the judges?

Adrenalynn
05-28-2008, 12:53 AM
Congrats! Sounds like major progress!

People love blinkylights...

metaform3d
05-31-2008, 03:51 PM
Here's the video from last night's soiree. Sorry for the poor quality. The feet are mine -- I lowered the camera because I thought the machine had failed (again!), but it was working OK. I was keeping things simple by only mixing cosmopolitans, although you can see that the rack could hold four additional bottles.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMriOADUMGs

I learned several things from prolonged operation. I had a bug in tracking internal state which caused the failure after mixing one or two drinks. I was able to fix that on the fly (nothing like a little debugging at a party). I also found that the cooling pump draws a lot more amps under actual conditions which led to some feverish rewiring.

The main issue though is that darn shaft coupler. It's the weak link in the whole design. The forces are such that it gradually pulls apart and eventually fails. I was able to fix it once but it's just not going to be tenable. I have to find some other sort of solution.

Alex
06-02-2008, 09:52 AM
nice foot shot;)

Seriously though. It's nice to see this project in action! Very cool work.

I've always wondered what the world would be like with automated bartenders... I can't wait to see new versions of this. What are your plans about the speed?

I'm imagining an old school western days style bar (at least in the movies) with one of these at the end of the bar. There's little touch screen monitors at each bar stool with a list of all the drinks. Once the customer places the order, the iLush makes the drink. Once the drink is finished, an arm shoots it down the bar, hehe! Hey, I said old school:D

BTW, are you wanting to enter this in the contest? If so, PM me.

ooops
06-02-2008, 12:54 PM
The main issue though is that darn shaft coupler. It's the weak link in the whole design. The forces are such that it gradually pulls apart and eventually fails. I was able to fix it once but it's just not going to be tenable. I have to find some other sort of solution.


Do you have or can you get a close up picture of the shaft and coupler. I am sure there has to be a solution. And odds are someone here will have encountered and solved the problem already.
BTW Make mine Shaken not stirred
Very impressive

metaform3d
06-02-2008, 09:08 PM
Do you have or can you get a close up picture of the shaft and coupler. I am sure there has to be a solution.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/picture_002_thumb.jpg (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=343&c=3)

The picture shows the main parts of the siphon exploded for clarity. The top part is the rigid frame, pot and motor. Next is a threaded rod that spins in a pair of bearings, the traveler and the accursed shaft coupler. The bottom part is the syringe itself, included only to show the direction of force.

The shaft coupler-- barely visible on the right end of the threaded rod -- is just a piece of plastic tubing that's held in place with some clamps (not shown). This is a really cheap and simple solution I have used before that works well as long as most of the load is torsional. In this case, however, there is a significant axial load since pushing the plunger up or down requires a lot of force. The rod slides freely in that direction in the bearings so the only thing holding it in the place is the coupling tube. What happens is as the traveler pushes liquid out of the syringe the tube rides up a little on the motor's shaft. The reverse pressure when it sucks liquid in doesn't fully restore it and eventually it just pops off.

I could machine a coupler that would grip the rod and the shaft rigidly, but that would require that the shafts are perfectly aligned. The plastic tubing works without that kind of precision. Another approach would be to use some other sort of bearing which prevents the rod from shifting along its axis, but I don't know how to do that.

My current thought right now is to spin up the motor and use a file to put some grooves into the shaft. This would help the plastic grip the shaft in the axial direction and prevent it from walking off. Other ideas would definitely be welcome!


BTW Make mine Shaken not stirred
Very impressive

The original design called for a shaker; give me a few months. And thanks.

Adrenalynn
06-02-2008, 09:28 PM
I've used metal screw couplers on the thread-rod, locked down, and then I use a drill press and press a small hole in the side, tap it, and then put a set-screw in against the motor shaft. I generally use three set screws, but I'm just anal that way.

ooops
06-03-2008, 07:39 AM
This could be a solution, I am not clear as to the shaft size of the motor, looks to be ¼” or the threaded rod size looks to be a bit bigger? 3/8” maybe?
Have you considered a “Spider Coupler”? Basically it works like two “gears” meshed up with a hunk of rubber between them. Example (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=162000)
Very low cost, and they work very well, they allow movement both sideways and up and down.
In your application purchase the coupler appropriate to the motor shaft size, assuming it is smaller than the threaded rod. Then drill and tap the rod side. Toss in a backer nut and you should be good to go. One note, if you are concerned about it sliding apart a bit of heat shrink longer than coupling will go a long way toward keeping it all together, and still allow flex in the joint.
Hope this helps.
Ed

metaform3d
06-08-2008, 08:27 PM
The motor shaft is about 1/8" (although a bit bigger; I think it's 3.5mm) and the rod is 10-32. A spider seems like overkill, and I don't have a lot of space for anything wide in the current configuration. I certainly could make something threaded on one end and with a set screw on the other -- that would just require that I get the alignment right. It would probably be worth doing that in the long run...

The main problem right now though is software. I've been trying to tighten up the control code so that more things can happen in parallel. In particular I want to squirt out the first shot while the rack is turning to get the next bottle into position. This is causing some really strange errors. Does anyone have any idea why the Phidget servo controller, which was working perfectly fine earlier, would suddenly think there are zero servos? I'm just doing this:

Phidget.Servo servo;
servo.servos[index].Position = pos;

I can set servo 3 to different positions several times, and then during the same execution I get an out of range exception and servo.servos.Count is zero. It's perplexing.

I've wrecked my rebuilt coupler again because I got the exception with the plunger motor still running, so it kept running with no software to check the limit switch. Any way to trap these exceptions so I can zero the motors but still be able to see where they come from? I'm using C#.

Thanks for your suggestions. Sorry to be slow to respond -- for some reason the site has not been showing me all new posts when I search for them.

metaform3d
06-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Found my crazy error, in case this might bite anyone else.

I set up a timer object in my C# application so I could poll the sensors and have tight control over servo position, but I set it to my normal idea of a good refresh rate -- 30 cycles per second or a trip time of 33 ms. At this rate and on my PC apparently my timer handler swamps everything else and the Phidgets software hits a timeout or something and decides that the servo interface is gone. Thus zero servos and the crazy exception.

I've reset the timer to 90 ms which gives the servos time to refresh and had no ill effects on my control loop. Fixed it just in time too. Let the games begin!

Alex
06-12-2008, 11:41 PM
I didn't realize you were using a timer in C#. Timers in .NET are a bit finicky. They tend to have unexpected results under somewhere around 40ms. There is a different "type" of timer in C# that is much better and used more commonly for this type of application, but I can't think of it off hand. I'm sure a bit of Googling will show you want I'm talking about. Sorry, I'd look it up, but I'm about ready to hit the sack. Gotta get some sleep b4 the first day of RoboGames:D

Adrenalynn
06-13-2008, 01:13 AM
I'd be interested in your approach too, Alex. Last time I needed a high precision timer, I used the high precision multimedia timer from winmm.dll. It's instantiated in much the same way. For even more accuracy, I'd use that timer along with creating a Background Worker thread. I think post-dotNet2.0 you can use the Stopwatch Timer in C# (which we've had forever in C/C++) and check IsHighResolution. It should (when run in a background worker) be good for microseconds.

metaform3d
06-13-2008, 01:46 AM
Argh. Probably not fixed after all. If you could come up with that alternative timer solution sometime soon it would be much appreciated -- assuming that's really the problem at all.

And now I'm getting weird servo chatter too. It never rains...

Adrenalynn
06-13-2008, 01:52 AM
Did you check out Stopwatch?

metaform3d
06-13-2008, 02:05 AM
The problem isn't exact timing; 0.1 second accuracy is fine. The problem is that C# forms applications are entirely event-driven. In order to be able to do something I need some part of the UI to generate an event. Thus the timer. If there was some way to actually take over the input loop that would be awesome.

metaform3d
06-14-2008, 03:03 AM
I'm sure the ongoing log of my tribulations isn't very interesting, but I feel I have to give a huge shout-out to Alex and the team from Trossen. They saved my bacon at RoboGames.

I was working on the last bizarre problems Friday morning and, trying to save time by swapping things out hot, fried my Phidget motor control board. Phidgets aren't something you can replace on short notice, so (after a struggle with not killing myself) I realized that I had another Phidget 4-servo board and a hand-wired H-bridge. I connected it up and ... it was shot too. I considered not even bothering at that point, but decided to pack up what was left of my worthless and crippled bot and haul it to San Francisco anyway.

The Trossen booth was full of sample devices that they had laid out just to show people what they could buy. A little groveling and Alex let me try not one but two of the Scorpion motor controllers they had, and the second one worked a treat after some fine-tuning of parameters. It took about 15 minutes to write a new motor class using servo PWM and the rest was tweaking and troubleshooting. They were a giant help throughout. I'm sure they got tired of seeing me trudge toward their booth with a new question or problem.

Although Alex politely wouldn't quote me a price I'll figure out how to buy the Scorpion XP that I'm using in my bot, and I will definitely buy a few more just because they are obviously awesome. I feel like things went from suicidal to blissful because of help from the community, so a huge thank you is in order.

So: THANK YOU!

Adrenalynn
06-14-2008, 09:52 AM
Customer Service: Not just for breakfast anymore!

Congrats on banging it together last minute, Meta - isn't that how these always work? :)

cmmguy
06-16-2008, 05:35 PM
Regarding the axial creep of the lead screw.
Would a double-nut with a brass washer create a rudimentary thrust bearing?

metaform3d
06-16-2008, 09:26 PM
That's a pretty good idea, cmmguy; I bet that would work. I have a few other things to rebuild first but I'll definitely give that a try.

The electronics problems I was having that scuttled my bot on Saturday after it mixed only a couple drinks are apparently caused by motor noise. Adren informs me that motors have to be isolated using capacitors at the casing. Who knew? Neither of the two robot books I learned from mentioned anything about it.

I'm going to do that, but I'm also concerned there might be grounding issues. I use several different power supplies for the different components -- should they be grounded together, or should they be allowed to float relative to each other?

metaform3d
06-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Results are in (http://robogames.net/2008.php), and iLush won the gold medal for bartending artbots! Amazing considering that it didn't work.

Adrenalynn
06-16-2008, 10:07 PM
I just saw that, and posted in another thread. CONGRATS!!!

Droid Works
06-17-2008, 11:45 AM
Congratulations! very cool:)

darkback2
06-19-2008, 12:51 AM
Hey,

Sorry I didn't get to see you up on the podium for the artbots award ceremony last weekend. Awsome job anyway. Its cool to see these things up close and really get a feel for how amazingly cool they really are. Go team Trossen!

DB

Alex
06-20-2008, 08:40 AM
I'd be interested in your approach too, Alex. Last time I needed a high precision timer, I used the high precision multimedia timer from winmm.dll. It's instantiated in much the same way. For even more accuracy, I'd use that timer along with creating a Background Worker thread. I think post-dotNet2.0 you can use the Stopwatch Timer in C# (which we've had forever in C/C++) and check IsHighResolution. It should (when run in a background worker) be good for microseconds.


Ha! All the searching on the damn web that I just did, and about ready to give up, when I thought to myself... why not just check the TRC, just in case? I didn't think I posted about it, but I guess I did...

Yep, looking back at a previous post that I made (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showpost.php?p=8402&postcount=11), it was the multimedia timer. Also, click on that link, and you'll see some things to note about the system timer.

Threading will work too, probably better, but threads are usually a bit much for people to wrap their heads around.

Adrenalynn
06-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Coolness. I'm going to check the hires StopWatch in C# at some point and see how it compares. I do know/agree that the mm timer is pretty good though. It's been my ol' standby with C#

dcalkins
06-20-2008, 12:56 PM
Results are in (http://robogames.net/2008.php), and iLush won the gold medal for bartending artbots! Amazing considering that it didn't work.

Yes it did. It poured 3 drinks. That was enough. :D

And you left w/o getting your medal. :mad:

DresnerRobotics
06-20-2008, 12:59 PM
Yes it did. It poured 3 drinks. That was enough. :D

And you left w/o getting your medal. :mad:


Whoa! Hey David, glad to see you around here :D

metaform3d
06-20-2008, 02:20 PM
Yes it did. It poured 3 drinks. That was enough. :DWell that's true. I just didn't think very many people saw it...


And you left w/o getting your medal. :mad:Yeah, that was a bummer. I couldn't find the times for judging or awards on the website or handouts so I sort of had to guess when scheduling my other commitments. Now I've done it once I have a better sense of what to expect for next time.

dcalkins
06-20-2008, 11:12 PM
Well that's true. I just didn't think very many people saw it...

The judges see all. You cannot hide from them.

Or me. :robotindifferent:

LinuxGuy
06-21-2008, 03:44 AM
I think iLush is extremely cool! Every home should have one. :veryhappy::veryhappy: You definitely deserved that award! :veryhappy:

8-Dale

dcalkins
06-27-2008, 05:14 PM
Stuart got a surprise email today.

Lets see if he reads it, or if he deletes it 'cause he thinks it's spam.

Who can guess what it says?;)

Adrenalynn
06-27-2008, 10:21 PM
That everyone involved in producing such a fine event *really* needs a drink, so he's invited to set up the iLush and then promptly leave? :D :D :D

metaform3d
06-29-2008, 02:01 AM
The premiere cocktail bot show -- RoboExotica in Vienna -- have offered to fly me there for their December event. Or rather, they want iLush there. It remains to be seen if I can convince them that I need to be there too. It's a terrific honor, the only cost is that I have to write an article for Servo about it. Oh no! Don't throw me into that briar patch!

I don't think even Thunderbird is dumb enough to spam filter an email from David freaking Calkins. I've been slow lately because of wacky emergencies; all resolved but it takes some time to catch up.

Adrenalynn
06-29-2008, 02:04 AM
Hey - I was close! :tongue:

Seriously, though, what a fantastic honor! Surely you're all over that!

Congrats! I'm just glad I'll be able to say "I knew him when..." :)

metaform3d
06-29-2008, 02:12 AM
That everyone involved in producing such a fine event *really* needs a drink, so he's invited to set up the iLush and then promptly leave? :D :D :DYeah right -- truly autonomous cocktail service remains the fevered dream of a madman.

BTW, I've installed the filter capacitors you suggested, Adren, and everything seems to be working much smoother at least so far. I ran flawless dry runs today and I'm going to try running tests tomorrow with a full liquid load. Ultimately I want to drive the siphon motor at much higher voltage which will be the real test. Anyway, thanks again for the advice!

Adrenalynn
06-29-2008, 02:30 AM
Cheer! Grats! Did you have a look at those noise filtration suggestions in that page I sent you? There was some pretty good stuff in there, and I've come up with a few additional methods for my large bot. Let me know if you have any more noise to address.

Alex
06-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Wow meta, congrats! Vienna huh? Be sure to take some pictures of all the craziness at RoboExotic and post 'em here for us:D

metaform3d
07-21-2008, 04:00 AM
I’ve had a lot of success lately, so I wanted to provide an update as well as some description of the system as a whole. Overall the robot is built from several systems which I will describe and picture below.

1) The turntable is made from laser-cut acrylic parts that provide 8 brackets for standard-sized martini glasses. Beneath the main deck there is a second deck with a set of teeth which are designed to mesh with a laser cut gear attached to a CR servo (circled), and below that a lazy-susan bearing. When the user selects a drink the table turns until it detects a glass in position with a microswitch feeler (circled).

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/table.jpg

2) The rack is also laser-cut acrylic and holds up to six bottles of ingredients. It has exactly the same pitch of gearing and a CR servo to turn it on a much smaller lazy-susan bearing.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/rack.jpg

3) The central tower is shared by the bottle tap (purple) and the siphon system (green). The tap raises and lowers a tube into the bottles in the rack by virtue of a heavy-duty drawer slide mounted vertically and a motor with a spool of line attached to it. As my wife put it: A bar winch. The siphon is a syringe and a motor to drive the plunger up and down along a threaded rod.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/tap-n-suck.jpg

4) The siphon is connected to a three-way valve driven by a servo. In position 1 it allows liquid from the bottles to be sucked into the syringe. In position 2 it allows that same liquid to be squirted through the heat exchanger and into the glass. In position 3 it allows gravity to draw anything in the rest of the system down and back into the bottles, which clears the tubes for the next batch of ingredients.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/valve-hex.jpg

5) The cooling system is hard to see since it’s all basically transparent. In this image I have hilighted the main tank – a vertical acrylic tube which holds ice-water – and the pump and tubes which cycle the coolant though the heat exchanger.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/cooling.jpg

6) The mark-1 design had a lot of problems which were solved with the help of members of this forum. I added motor filter capacitors suggested by Adrenalynn, and a simple thrust bearing suggested by cmmguy. Each are circled in this image.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/mark2.jpg

7) This image shows the other side of the bottle rack, with part of the rack visible and with the microswitch feeler that measures the rack’s position (circled). In the mark-2 design the electronics have been moved from the central nexus of the device to the side for easier access. Yes, it’s on cardboard right now. I use cardboard for a lot of prototyping; you got a problem with that?

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/elec.jpg

8) Finally there is the main CPU and user interface. This is provided by an HP Pavillion Entertainment laptop placed into portrait mode and wedged into the apex position on the device to act both as touch-screen UI and the central control for the whole machine. In a real scenario it would have more power and USB cables than it has here.

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/gui.jpg

metaform3d
07-21-2008, 04:09 AM
Sorry -- I guess I messed up the formatting with the cooling image; it's too big. Not sure I can do anything now. Oopsie.

EDIT: Fixed now.

ooops
07-21-2008, 07:43 AM
Meta,
Great job on the pictures, the larger format of the cooling image allows a better look;)
Awsome stuff.
You must have great will power,if my projects involved cocktails I wouldn't get much done!
Thank you for sharing!

Alex
07-21-2008, 09:00 AM
nice work meta! It's awesome to see this project moving along:D

About the cooling image. PM me and we'll try and get that corrected:)

metaform3d
07-21-2008, 11:04 AM
You must have great will power,if my projects involved cocktails I wouldn't get much done!I always work with colored water when I'm doing testing. I hope to have it mixing real cocktails at a party this Friday.

One of the larger innovations lately has been in the software. I've updated the sequencing so that while the first shot is being squirted into the glass the rack is turning to get the next bottle in position. I also sped up the rack turning by adding acceleration which lets it move faster without shaking the bottles too much. That has improved mixing time by quite a bit.

I've uploaded (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=70) the control software to the file area of the forum. It has a fairly modular structure and many parts might be reusable for other projects. It can be run as is and the nice UI will just display sarcastic comments if you try to select a drink. That's what I ran at RoboGames when I wasn't around. You can also make it really operate (by setting fake_mode to false), but then you'd need your own iLush.

ooops
07-21-2008, 12:00 PM
Did you fabricate the lexan gears?
They look very cool!

metaform3d
07-21-2008, 08:32 PM
Did you fabricate the lexan gears?
They look very cool!I did; thanks. The CNC laser cutter at Techshop was my very best friend for a lot of this project.

metaform3d
08-07-2008, 01:40 AM
Does anyone have a source for 12v DC water pumps? The one I was using failed only the second time I tried to use it (the first time it leaked like crazy) so I'm reluctant to go back to eBay to find more. I need about 1.2 meter of head and don't need more than about 1 L/min of flow. Ideally it would connect to 1/2 inch ID tubing. I could live with AC in a pinch, but DC gives me more options on the hardware side.

On a related topic, what's the deal with piezoelectric cooling systems? Could I replace my circulating water with something electronic and get the same result?

ooops
08-07-2008, 09:46 AM
Will this one work ... http://www.sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm/terms/14315

metaform3d
08-07-2008, 11:25 AM
Will this one work ... http://www.sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm/terms/14315No, it's only got 6" of lift. I need about 35". Thanks though.

Adrenalynn
08-07-2008, 11:59 AM
Does this need to be food-grade?

Thinking about the bilge pump in my boat leads me to wonder if you couldn't go that direction?

http://www.rmsmarineparts.com/product.sc;jsessionid=711AA3A3E64283A51629F015849D 71BD.qscstrfrnt02?productId=512&sourceCode=froogle

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=54489F <-- This one has 10 feet of head at 10GPM, tops out about 12GPM.

Anyway, the upshot is that you can get a sealed pump with stainless impellers (not food-grade rating) that runs at 12v and can more than meet your specs if you look at marine bilge pumps.

Does that come closer to fitting the bill?

ooops
08-07-2008, 12:25 PM
I only suggested the above because I used those in the past for RC fuel.
After just a small amount of thought, seems like an auto fuel pump will provide a quick solution. Although not a cheap one. It is alcohol safe, pretty darn good pressure, possibly get to 1/2" fitting size, and 12v.
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=BK&PartNumber=3353809&Description=Fuel+Pump+-+New+(Universal+Electric+In-Line++MSD+T

Adrenalynn
08-07-2008, 12:52 PM
You're a sailor too, Ooops! No love for my bilge-bumps? ;)

ooops
08-07-2008, 02:26 PM
You're a sailor too, Ooops! No love for my bilge-bumps? ;)

Heaven knows I have had more than a few drinks that tasted like bilge water:)

But bilge-pumps are usually plastic, and fuel pumps are "shiny". You know how men like shiny:)

You may be better suited to suggest ... you have seen it, I have only seen pictures so I am not clear what would work and look best. That said, I do hope to drink from it some day!!!

Adrenalynn
08-07-2008, 02:28 PM
The waste-pump I listed: http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=54489F could be made to be pretty shiny. :)

ooops
08-07-2008, 03:44 PM
I have had few drinks that taste like that too:)LOL

Adrenalynn
08-07-2008, 03:48 PM
You know, you really need to find a better bar...

metaform3d
08-08-2008, 12:18 PM
No, it does not need to be food grade -- it's for pumping the coolant.

I've been tending toward something like this: http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=10021000446

A bilge pump is an interesting option. The cheap ones are all designed to be immersed which would require changes to the design. Potentially good changes, though. Thanks for the suggestions!

ooops
08-08-2008, 12:38 PM
That is a very cool looking little pump. Were you able to get specs on it? Not alot of info on that page.
It looks like a high flow which could mean low pressure??? Also, looks like 1/4" fittings but hard to scale.

dcalkins
08-08-2008, 01:33 PM
Try mcmaster carr. They have lots of very good pumps.

ooops
08-10-2008, 06:30 PM
Back in my "living in Florida days" when there was a marine parts store on every corner, we used the SHURflo water pumps for almost anything you can think of, from in the boat for sinks, showers, saltwater wash down to camp site shower via 55 gallon drum, mega squirtguns...
My point is if you need a dependable, long life 12v pump. Those are hard to beat.
They also have a pressure switch to turn themselves off when you reach a predetermined pressure. My thought was if you had a solenoid valve on a thermostat you could control temp fairly accurately.

metaform3d
08-10-2008, 08:27 PM
Thanks for the tip, ooops. Searching on "RV pump" is getting me a lot more 12V options.