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LinuxGuy
06-22-2008, 04:51 PM
I've been watching the development of different Linux based phone operating systems.. Two of these Android (http://code.google.com/android/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=android%20mobile) and the ACCESS Linux Platform (ALP) (http://alp.access-company.com/index.html). ALP is the foundation for GarnetOS, the newest, used in the latest Palm handhelds and cell phones.

The thing that really caught my interest is when I had to find a replacement for my cell phone. I searched through all the phones AT&T offers currently, and only two really stood out - the Samsung Blackjack II and the AT&T Tilt. Yes, I know these are both Windows Mobile 6 phones. but this is not what interests me so much as the fact that at least the Blackjack II has a processor capable of running Linux.

I ended up getting the Samsung BlackJack II, purely because I couldn't quite afford an AT&T Tilt. The Blackjack II use the TI OMAP 1710, which is capable of running Linux. Since this processor can run Linux, it seems like there would be other possibilities here. Of course, to actually run Linux on something like a Blackjack II, it's going to require some reverse engineering, which might be a very major effort.

So, I'm wondering if ALP (http://alp.access-company.com/index.html) or Android (http://code.google.com/android/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=android%20mobile) might be usable for robotics.. Android (http://code.google.com/android/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=android%20mobile) seems to have the most potential, being fully Open Source.

Anyone for a robot that can phone home?

8-Dale

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm afraid it's going to be more than "some reverse engineering". Cell phone OS boot loaders are in secure memory. It's going to require replacing half the board...

Wingzero01w
06-22-2008, 05:38 PM
I might get the 3G iphone and have it dual boot android for robotic control.

LinuxGuy
06-22-2008, 06:11 PM
I'm afraid it's going to be more than "some reverse engineering". Cell phone OS boot loaders are in secure memory. It's going to require replacing half the board...
Oh, I know it would be a major effort to reverse engineer a cell phone, bootloader, etc. However, what about creating something new based on Android (http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=BBKEH59leSL6EGJWyoQTx6738C7zipi-8zem3BLSc94EVsNsGCAAQARgBKAIwATgBUIuu5v_7_____wFgy Yb-i8yk1BnIAQHZA-QGNVbIwM6o4AMQ&ggladgrp=14249572344824307899&gglcreat=8853994003382435402&sig=AGiWqtzOJExUjSWKEgno8KdqKTKuEC5GzQ&q=http://code.google.com/android#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=android%20mobile), but oriented more towards robotics?

With today's embedded processors, there seems to be some serious potential to combine a complete cell phone handset package with robotics. Cell phone boards are definitely small, so why shouldn't something new in a similar form factor be created. I have been watching the development of OpenMoko (http://www.openmoko.com) closely also, and wish I could afford to get the new Freerunner when it's released. :veryhappy: OpenMoko (http://www.openmoko.com/) is not quite oriented towards robotics though, but maybe it could be repurposed.. :veryhappy:

Have you seen seen Pandora (http://www.openpandora.org/)? Add cell capabilities to Pandora (http://www.openpandora.org/) and I wonder what might be possible. It's already got all the computing power that should be necessary to run an advanced robot, and it's completely Open Source too.

W.A.L.T.E.R. phone home!

8-Dale

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 08:33 PM
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8700

Done, and done.

Wingzero01w
06-22-2008, 09:27 PM
Nice... but i was more thinking of control of cellphone using its processor and a serializer... thats what i want to do mainly and the Iphone/android/pandora/openmoko make it that much easier.

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 09:33 PM
That's what the board I linked does. Infinitely more easily, btw. It's a cell phone. Exposed to the world.

As far as using the iPhone - how much surface-mount soldering have you done? What kind of hot-air gun or reflow table will you be using?

Wingzero01w
06-22-2008, 09:41 PM
Oh... i didn't mean put the iphone on the robot... i'd never do that. The iphone has built in bluetooth and can be used as a host for GSM if you can program it to function that way. Iphone & custom program built using the SDK+ bluetooth -> serializer = complete control of robot. But for surface mounting on a robot, that board you linked is pretty awesome.

LinuxGuy
06-22-2008, 09:48 PM
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8700

Done, and done.
That's nice, but not quite what I had in mind. I have my eye on this GM862 Cellular Quad Band Module with GPS (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7917) instead. It's not only less expensive, but gets me quad band and GPS as well. :veryhappy: Unfortunately, I think you have to have at least two of these to accomplish anything useful. That would be a total of 3 lines one would have to have in service. Now, when there are 3G data capable cell modules available, I'll really be interested.

8-Dale

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 09:58 PM
Why not use a EEE PC and put a Verizon Broadband card on it? One line, no waiting.

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Any cheap modern cell phone can be used as the control side. Even my POS candybar Nokia 6018 or whatever it is. It does bluetooth, and it does TCP.


Oh... i didn't mean put the iphone on the robot... i'd never do that. The iphone has built in bluetooth and can be used as a host for GSM if you can program it to function that way. Iphone & custom program built using the SDK+ bluetooth -> serializer = complete control of robot. But for surface mounting on a robot, that board you linked is pretty awesome.

Wingzero01w
06-22-2008, 10:01 PM
depends on the size of the robot... an eee pc might be a little too big.

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 10:11 PM
Why not use a PicoITX and a Verizon Nationwide Broadband card? One line to activate, no waiting.

Wingzero01w
06-22-2008, 10:27 PM
Im thinking like humanoid chassis size. For my mech :)

Adrenalynn
06-22-2008, 10:49 PM
I thought you weren't going to put a cell phone on it? I thought Dale was. So the commentary about putting a cell phone on a 'bot applies more to him, right? Just curious. 'Cause an iPhone isn't really any smaller than a PicoITX. By the time you get done exposing the board and building a daughterboard for interface, the iPhone will be substantially larger than a PicoITX.

Wingzero01w
06-22-2008, 10:53 PM
Actually, the iphones size is mainly the battery, the actual circuit board is only about half the size in height. Im not sure of the 3g version though.

LinuxGuy
06-23-2008, 07:20 AM
Why not use a EEE PC and put a Verizon Broadband card on it? One line, no waiting.
The EEE PC is to large.

8-Dale

Adrenalynn
06-23-2008, 01:57 PM
How about a Compaq IPaq with with a PCMCIA jacket a Sierra Wireless/Sprint Broadband card? If that's too large, you should probably shelve the project for a few years and come back to it... Either that, or go to a dedicated cell solution like the one I linked to earlier.

LinuxGuy
06-23-2008, 02:22 PM
How about a Compaq IPaq with with a PCMCIA jacket a Sierra Wireless/Sprint Broadband card? If that's too large, you should probably shelve the project for a few years and come back to it... Either that, or go to a dedicated cell solution like the one I linked to earlier.
I think you may have misunderstood what I am trying to discuss here. Apologies if I was not clear enough. :happy:

The only thing here that has to do with cell phones is that Android is designed for cell phone platforms - that's it. :happy: What I am trying to pursue here is whether Android might or might not be suitable for robotics, since at least some of the platforms it targets are the same processors that may be use for robot controllers. :happy:

Clear as mud now? :veryhappy::veryhappy:

8-Dale

meistro
08-31-2010, 06:46 AM
Bump, Bump...

This is a pretty old thread. I thought I'd bring it back to the surface. It seems that Android has come a long way since June of 2008. Since there's so many examples and the tools are free, it would appear to me that Android would be the perfect platform for the control of robots, or other remotly located devices.

Has anyone else investigated this? Anyone tried Amarino?, the Arduino Android app.