I need a kickstart...

[ScuD]

Hi guys,

I'm just opening a little "kick me in the b... thread" cause i've been lingering for too long...

So, a little story about ScuD.

Ever since i put my finger in the electrical socket as a toddler, I've had a knack for everything electromechanical and electronical. It's what thrives me. It's what keeps me awake at night (literally)

Robotics and animatronics are both a perfect representation of these, since I'm pretty good at working with my hands, meaning sculpting, drawing, painting, crafts generally speaking..

So at age 17 I scratch built my first robot, a 2DOF quad, made out of coathanger wire and the cheapest servo's i could find. I designed a PCA with two 16f84 micro's and programmed them in JAL (sorta like basic) Took me the better part of a year, but got the thing walking.

Fastforward a few years, senior year in "high-school" (not like american high-school, more like uni)
I scratch built a cnc router to cut out the parts i designed for a hex in plastic, added some servo's i got for free, designed a bus-based system with 6 µcontrollers, one controller per leg, driven by a "brain" controller via I2C.
Up to this day I haven't gotten the thing to walk. I added stronger servo's, started exploring C programming, but njet... It's gathering dust behind my printer.

So here's my problem.

All day long every single second i see flashes of things I could build, I could modify, I could program.
They draw my attention and draw me away from other projects.

I can't seem to focus on one single project, and combining this with work and gf (we're not living together yet) I seem to find hardly any time to work on it.
When I do have some time, I'm mostly surfing the forum here (cause you guys are fun! yay! :veryhappy:)

So; excruciatingly long story put short, I made this thread for people who need a "kick in the ..." and "get the damn 'bot done!" as a sort of pat on the back.

Ps: if anyone has any tips on managing projects, feel free to enlighten me!

[MYKL]

If you want to be an artest/inventor and make a living at it leave off of the idea of being a normal human in any way. Especially socially. And don't EXPECT any returns until you are (or are mostly) dead. Do it for yourself and the love of creating and you will suffer a lot less.

You are seeing Adulthood as it boldly approaches in its inevitable bid to suck the life out of you. Keep your dreams and write them and your visions down. Now. While you still have time.

^_^

[darkback2]

Me too...

One thing I've found is that when I don't finish what I start, two reasons:

1) In part it is out of fear of it not turning out the way I originally planned it.
- I can't seam to get a frame I weld to come out as square as I would like. Its like oragami...a slight misfold at the start = major problems later on.
- My hexapod needs training wheels.

2) The parts I have left are all parts I don't like doing.
- I hate programming, but love the results.

In any case, just stop sleeping. I did, and I've been productive ever since.

DB

[ScuD]

No more sleeping..

Noted.


It's a curse, to have a hobby that engulfs you completely. But then, that's what makes all these cool bots...

The only thing I fear is laying aside the hobby when I buy a house.. It'll probably need renovation and bills need to be payed.

Ah well, we'll just need to pick it back up at age 30 or so :happy:

[MYKL]

Ahh the rub is this...

At 30 if you have pursued a hobby to the point of being a professional at it there is a good chance that you will be twice the man you are now. Then if you want to live past 50 you have to add time into your schedule for bodily training and you will have to find nourishing things to eat and you'll have to start sleeping so that you can recover like you did when you were 21. Then you can fix the house, kiss the wife, pet the kids and finally look at those drawing I was talking about.

^_^

[darkback2]

I have a house...

I don't know why I said that.

Kids would probably end this for me. But you need to have a hobby. Everyone spends money on something, and the house and everything else just mean you will have a bit less to spend. That said, owning a home has not been much more expensive than renting...and having a steady job helps with all the bills.

This shouldn't be about money though...you can do robotics on a large, or small scale...on a big or small budget...

Are you afraid of getting old or something? They say people in developed countries are now having two midlife crisis. My first one came at about 28...got a motorcycle and a really hot wife out of the deal. I'm sort of looking forward to the next one.

DB

[ScuD]

Eheh... Got my motorcycle almost 7yrs ago, another one of those projects, but this one I finished..

And the hot wife is waiting for a ring, so I'm all set there.

Not afraid of getting old, more wondering if there's more people out there with gazillions of projects, and tips on how they sort them out.

I have a problem finishing my projects, that's the thing really.

Money's not that much of an issue atm, but it will be if I buy a house.
It costs as much as renting (slightly cheaper even) but houses cost a small fortune back here, combined with high taxes (42% of our wage) it will get quite tight...

Sometimes I just need someone to say 'Get the damn project done allready!!', that was kind of the intent of the thread.

[darkback2]

fair enough then...what are you working on by the way...Oh what the heck!

Get the damn thing done!

was that stern enough? I'm not really sure if my motivation came across in that one.

DB

[JonHylands]

I have a hard time staying focused on one project. What I normally do is have a couple main robots that I'm working on at any point in time (MicroRaptor and Seeker 2x for now), and a few side projects. For me, right now, the side projects are getting overwhelming (HUVrobotics, and some stuff for Mech Wars). Fortunately, the Mech Wars thing isn't on a tight deadline.

Yeah, and I have a house, a wife, and three kids.

You have to learn how to say "yeah, that's cool. I'm going to keep working on my stuff..."

One way I manage my time is to not post so much. If you get involved in every conversation on the boards, all your time can get sucked into that. There are all kinds of cool things going on, but I have to be almost ruthless in ignoring most of it in order to actually get anything done.

[crabfu]

I don't see anything wrong with having a bunch of projects in the works, or in your head. It's sometimes helpful to leave a project and rediscover it again with a fresh perspective. But for me, mostly I get a little nutty when I am not obsessed with some project or another. I tend to get too focused once I get into it, not sleeping, eating, peeing etc lol. It's like a drug... and you always try to make something cooler or better than you've done before, but the high from finishing a project never lasts that long, for me anyway, so I just keep cranking away at them. But getting to that focused state can be difficult at times.

I think the main thing is having a project that you are very excited about, and not be overwhelmed by. It is hard to kick start something that you know you will run out of steam on, or tackle on something that you know nothing about. What helps me is just take bite size pieces, until it's all gone. These days I tackle on small and simple projects mostly, because deserts can be pretty tasty, and often better than the meal. Motivation is easier when the rewards are great and challenging enough, but not too overwhelming.

One thing that sort of keep me going, is seeing it as a ever changing puzzle. The rules change, some things work, other parts don't. My method is one of mostly trail and error, but always keeping the big picture in mind.... "what am I trying to accomplish with this thing?" so that I don't get too anal and side tracked on things that don't matter in the end. So puzzles are never fun when you can't solve them, but puzzles that is difficult but solvable are rewarding. You get to pick your own puzzle and make it as easy or as hard as you like, and make up all of the rules and change them at anytime. That is what fuels me, making up stuff that is just slightly out of reach, and sometimes you get lucky, other times you fail and fail again... but that just makes the success that much sweeter.

Sounds like you have a rare balance between tech and art, and able to tackle on probably all aspects of your projects on your own... you know the drill, just matter devoting time and energy. IF it really is what you want, you shouldn't have to work at making it happen, you just simply can't stop from starting all the way to finishing it :) You want a kick in the behind? sounds like you're doing that well by yourself. Enough complaining about the how's... go play :) we're waiting to be wowed... how's that for a little kick?

-Crabfu

[ScuD]

Well, I consider myself kicked, actually I spent all last night programming the bioloid, so it worked!
Thanks guys! :veryhappy:

One thing I have noted is that I usually changes ideas while working on a project for that project itself.
Meaning eg. having one part fixed, but once it's done it seems easy, so tackle a harder idea.
Like Crabfu says; the puzzle always changes, but that's only part of the fun I guess.

This is why I loved the entire Mech wars concept; It gave me an excuse to finally get started on a biped, the platform and the actual need to get more confident with C and/or other high-level languages, plus the building of an airsoftgun which I'd been planning on since I got my lathe.

Now it's just a matter of getting all the little sideprojects done.

[Adrenalynn]

For me projects can be daunting at the start. So many variables and so many possibilities. I find the best thing for me is to just pick one small bit of the project that I know I can answer and start from there. The rest just starts to flow once the spigot is turned on...

That said, I have seventeen projects on the whiteboard today, six in process, and umpteen more in my head. ;)

[MYKL]

I may have been kicking you below the belt.

You are intelligent enough. Make something that will make a difference in your creative evolution and possably make a change for the better in all of ours. Thats why we're all here, to learn and to get props if/when we make something special.

Be well sir...


^_^

[sam]

Yeah, I have this problem too... :confused:

I start a project but due to lack of knowlage I have trouble finishing a project on the programming part. I keep trying to learn but I dread this part of the robot building and I always think I won't be able to do taht part.

But at least now I'm working on aschool project and I'm obliged to finish it so I don't think I will have that problem with this project. It's also fun like project because there is no electronics, just a couple of electric parts.

[ScuD]

Sam, I've been programming for 6 years but only in assembler, as a result I spent 5 hours last night trying to figure out why my bioloid won't interrupt on receiving a packet in C.

I still haven't got it working, but I refuse to give in.

The harder a problem is, the more energy you put into it, the more you'll learn, and the better you'll remember.

Keep at it and I'm sure you'll start a new thread soon enough with all of us going 'wow!'

[metaform3d]

Many years have taught me to stick with one (or at most two, in case one is waiting on some external contingency) project at a time. I can't help my mind from wandering into future plans, but I keep my actual actions focused. As a CTO of a startup I don't have a lot of free cycles.

I have the reverse problem of many here. Being a professional software engineer I have no problem with that side of things. But when I need electronics I often fall apart. I also have a bit of a problem with NIH software, but that's my own cross to bear.

[Adrenalynn]

See, that's still why I think hobbyists should team up. Put three or four people together - a hardware engineer, a software engineer, a machinest, and a human interface designer... Now the world gets changed.

The hard part, just like in a company, is finding people equally passionate and commited.

[metaform3d]

See, that's still why I think hobbyists should team up. Put three or four people together - a hardware engineer, a software engineer, a machinest, and a human interface designer... Now the world gets changed.I totally, totally -- and did I mention *totally* -- agree. The few relatively low-level collaborations I have had have been very fruitful (and by "low-level" I mean that I whined publically about something not working until someone smarter than me gave me a good idea).

I'm about two or three -- depending on how you count -- projects away from needing skills that are far beyond my own talents. One approach is to get some books and ask questions until you can do as well as someone who is experienced. I think another approach would be to actually form a team so that work can be divided based on who is more capable. The question is, if we're physically separated do we ship the robot back and forth as the different parts need to be built or tested? Or perhaps we both build and troubleshoot robots in parallel. Ideas?

[Adrenalynn]

I was thinking about both those things when I wrote the above.

One of the interesting things in hardware/circuit/board design/prototyping is that it usually costs exactly the same to order five boards as it does one. Even in the "robots in parallel" there are economies of scale to some extent.

Just thinking/writing totally free-form-stream-of-consciousness here of course.

The way I tend to design and build is a little different in that I start with a box of junk and iterate until I have a working product - that doesn't work well in parallel. Maybe one person starts by either spec'ing or, preferably, prototyping a base, then two [however many] are built from that initial prototype as the "gold standard"? Lessons learned and all that.

The trick is to find two [or more] people that are equally interested in the same result. I have more than a handful of projects that are too big for me, really, and it slows me down. But is anyone else actually interested in the same thing as me?

Maybe what we need is a clearing-house of projects -> talent? A database where you can look through ideas and say "that one! Oh look - they're lacking in software help" or you can post a project and I can say "oh look! He needs hardware and/or the software is too large for one person, I could jump in there"?

I like physically less diverse collaborations better though, honestly, because I would prefer to learn through observation, and second is the exchange of ideas that happens when a couple passionate people get together and start kicking around some base notion: "what if?" is the life/world/project changing question. :)

[4mem8]

I totally agree Adrenalynn, I find the most frustrating thing in robotics for me is programming, I have so many robots on the go most finished but lack programming, It would be great to look up a section and say that's what I need, although programming is a different area as it would not suit all robots and sensors. But electronics, mechanical, wiring, weathering if needed, and types of motors and wheels. you could have a section on this that would be useful for people to look at and see if it fits there criteria. Must be great to be able to build robots and program them as well.

[metaform3d]

I would love to help people with programming. It's my bread and butter, my alpha and omega. I'm just not sure how to make it work remotely, especially given that the programming has to be tested against something that has a real hardware presence that I cannot interact with because I'm in a different time zone.

Perhaps that's where the TRS comes in? Ya think? Whaaaa?

[Adrenalynn]

Actually, there IS another way...

If you look at 4mem's picoITX driven bot, there's absolutely no reason to two of you couldn't interact exactly as if you were there over UltraVNC. Add an overview camera to the room, like a wireless webcam, and you could be totally virtually present.

[Adrenalynn]

I think the big question is - if you don't have duplicate hardware [re]designed by 4mem - what do you get from the deal - or vice-versa.

There's a lot to work out in this master plan, isn't there? ;)