PDA

View Full Version : 'Airsoft Class' & 'Hardcore Class'



DresnerRobotics
07-23-2008, 01:10 AM
So I've said from the beginning I wanted to open up the competition to more powerful weapons, but on the same accord some people aren't comfortable with the risk of damaging their Mech in matches...

The easiest solution to remedy this is to create two different classes of Mechs, based on weapon rules.


Airsoft Class will follow the currently posted rules, using Airsoft and Nerf type weapons.


Hardcore Class:
This class will not follow the same weapon restrictions. Weapons rules are simple and open- "No electrical, chemical, or liquid weapons. Pretty much anything else goes."

This includes weapons such as micro-class rockets, co2 powered BB guns, flame throwers, etc. All weapons will have to be cleared with an official prior to being allowed to participate, we still need to keep safety/laws in mind. If we feel a weapon is too dangerous we reserve the right to deny participation, so ask before going forth with building it. There will probably be a velocity limit, but it will be a good amount higher than the airsoft class.

Total mass of robot with batteries, weapons and ammo may not exceed 5 kg.

You should be prepared to take *some* damage to your Mech in the hardcore class. Don't plan on participating in it if you're not okay with that. This will require the arena be fully enclosed, which is something that is being discussed with David.



Participation in either class of event is up to you. Ladders will be separate between the two classes.

This leaves people open to create a Mech that is capable of competing in either or both classes. You could have an 'Airsoft' configuration and also a 'Hardcore' configuration of the same Mech.

4mem8
07-23-2008, 01:14 AM
Nice, I like those rules, That will please someone I know he he.

Adrenalynn
07-23-2008, 01:32 AM
"No [...] chemical,[...] weapons. Pretty much anything else goes." This includes weapons such as micro-class rockets[...]


Isn't a micro-class rocket a chemical motor?

DresnerRobotics
07-23-2008, 01:33 AM
No chemical as in you're not spraying acid.

dcalkins
07-23-2008, 01:34 AM
chemical weapon is to be interpretted literally. e.g., No spraying mercury.

Adrenalynn
07-23-2008, 01:35 AM
Aha, got it, thanks!

DresnerRobotics
07-23-2008, 01:38 AM
Should we add "No nuclear or biological weapons" clause in there too? :p

ScuD
07-23-2008, 01:39 AM
Pff, no nuclear weapons? count me out for the hardcore class.. :veryhappy:

Adrenalynn
07-23-2008, 01:40 AM
Can we kill the other competitor thereby disabling the other 'bot?

dcalkins
07-23-2008, 01:40 AM
I'd be interested to see a nuke that weighs in under 5 pounds.

ScuD
07-23-2008, 01:50 AM
So would the army

metaform3d
07-23-2008, 02:44 AM
That seems like a good compromise, T. If you can get two mechs willing to go hardcore I'm sure that will be a crowd pleaser. If not, no loss.

dcalkins
07-23-2008, 02:53 AM
ANy hardcore bot can easily compete in the 'softcore' class by just disabling the more powerful weapons...

sam
07-23-2008, 09:53 AM
Yeah. It gives a nice compromise Tyb!

5 pounds is in both classes right? So I can't build a life-size mech? :genmad: :veryhappy:

DresnerRobotics
07-23-2008, 11:26 AM
Few clarifications, because we need to keep these weapons safe and legal:



This includes weapons such as micro-class rockets, co2 powered BB guns, flame throwers, etc. All weapons will have to be cleared with an official prior to being allowed to participate, we still need to keep safety/laws in mind. If we feel a weapon is too dangerous we reserve the right to deny participation, so ask before going forth with building it. There will probably be a velocity limit, but it will be a good amount higher than the airsoft class.

jdolecki
07-23-2008, 06:18 PM
"I'd be interested to see a nuke that weighs in under 5 pounds."

Now that we have the attention of the Homeland Security, FBI, NSA, NRC and most Terrorist

I would like to say "JUST KIDDING"

ramos96
04-01-2012, 05:57 AM
"I'd be interested to see a nuke that weighs in under 5 pounds."

Now that we have the attention of the Homeland Security, FBI, NSA, NRC and most Terrorist

I would like to say "JUST KIDDING"

bi-conal mini-nuke would meet your purposes.

size: coke can
power: .5 - 5 megatons

theoretically of course :P

gammaprysem
12-28-2012, 08:57 PM
ok so kind of a dumb question . . . . .but do the hardcore rules say anything against like a air powered or spring powered "piercing" device such as a spike that simply can protrude then retract? or even jumping mechs? and has anyone done this before? . . . . im slightly new to this bit not new to this side of robotics but new to this event in specific

tician
12-28-2012, 09:46 PM
ok so kind of a dumb question . . . . .but do the hardcore rules say anything against like a air powered or spring powered "piercing" device such as a spike that simply can protrude then retract? or even jumping mechs? and has anyone done this before? . . . . im slightly new to this bit not new to this side of robotics but new to this event in specific
http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?5454-Mech-Warfare-2013-Draft-Rules

Not really any rules in hardcore so long as there is a sufficiently safe arena available. It's not gotten very destructive yet, so if you looking for bot on bot carnage, combots/robogames may be more to your liking.

As for jumping mechs (and bots in general): strong, accurate, inexpensive; choose two.

gammaprysem
12-29-2012, 12:16 AM
thanks , and ive already got a solution in mind somewhat but just needed to gather some others to compare against

jwatte
12-29-2012, 11:11 AM
So mounting a sawed-off 20-gauge on a quad is out? Shame :-)

ArduTank
12-29-2012, 01:27 PM
If you kept the barrel longer than 18 inches, it would be legal (federal law). you'd have to talk to Tiberius about MW Rules regarding that.

jwatte
12-29-2012, 02:23 PM
The question is whether adding electric actuation of a semi-automatic would suddenly turn it into an automatic, and you'd need a class 3 license... which you pretty much can't get in California.
Anyway, I'm not actual serious :-) I don't own a single gun, living in a dense urban area and not being much of the hunter type.

ArduTank
12-29-2012, 05:40 PM
Semi-auto? 99% of shotguns civilians can get are pump action or single shot, which electric actuation would not make illegal. For example, I could take my pump-action .410 bore Mossberg 500 and cut down the stock, shorten the barrel to 18.5 inches, and have one servo actuating the pump and one hitting the trigger and it would still be legal.

jwatte
12-29-2012, 11:08 PM
99% of shotguns civilians can get

Then there is the 1%...


have one servo actuating the pump and one hitting the trigger and it would still be legal

So what's the difference with having the gas or blowback actuate the re-chambering and re-triggering? No, actually, I don't want to know, because this sounds like way too much legalese and too little common sense.

Also: electric-fired stacked-ammunition disposable barrel guns will see this problem in spades.

Anyone can already make a fully automatic in a metal shop if they really wanted to; soon, we can 3d print them... Brave new world :-)

ArduTank
12-30-2012, 10:19 AM
there are no gas operated shotguns that are in current manufacture due to the nature of the shot shell's wad. Remington used to make a blowback operated shotgun, but it is no longer in production, and hasn't been for several decades. and for you to modify an existing gun to do so requires a lot of time and money. Legality-wise, a servo actuated pump action is legal here in Indiana at least.

jwatte
12-30-2012, 04:09 PM
there are no gas operated shotguns that are in current manufacture

I thought the Mossberg 930/935 are gas operated? I know the Benellis are recoil/mass operated, though.
Anyway, probably a discussion for a different forum :-)

ArduTank
12-30-2012, 11:42 PM
Due to the way a shotgun's shot wad is shaped and behaves, it is VERY hard to achieve a gas-operated design without destroying the wad in the process.


EDIT: Did some reasearch on the Mossberg 930, and the dual gas venting isn't reloading related, it's a recoil reduction technique.

gammaprysem
01-01-2013, 08:14 PM
Due to the way a shotgun's shot wad is shaped and behaves, it is VERY hard to achieve a gas-operated design without destroying the wad in the process.

what about slugshot? dont forget about that seeing as it is basicaly the same as a bullet :p

darkback2
01-02-2013, 02:18 AM
Before this thread gets too out of hand or draws too much attention...

Robogames prohibits the use of Gunpowder powered weapons. mounting a shotgun on your mech would probably fall under that qualification. The micro class rockets used in hardcore were very specifically chosen and approved.

On that note, one competitor in hardcore a few years ago used a homebrew CO2 powered BBgun shooting metal BBs. That was fine.

Basically, Hardcore draws a crowd. If you start shooting holes in the arena you're going to hurt someone, probably get arrested, and ruin a fun time for all involved.

DB

DresnerRobotics
01-02-2013, 10:57 AM
You know a thread is really off in space when Che is the voice of reason.

cire
01-02-2013, 05:45 PM
Before this thread gets too out of hand or draws too much attention...

On that note, one competitor in hardcore a few years ago used a homebrew CO2 powered BBgun shooting metal BBs. That was fine.


DB

Actually Dave was quite upset when he saw the metal bb's, so I don't think those are ok to use.

gammaprysem
01-02-2013, 09:05 PM
@ DB most of us know this . . . .tbh how did this come up exactly?

ArduTank
01-03-2013, 06:31 PM
I never said that it couldn't be an airsoft shotgun. :) I just stated what I knew on the fact about what would allow him to.

Warsloth
03-19-2013, 04:42 PM
Just to throw my .02 in... we once made a paintball shotgun that fired 45rnds at a time. you had to wad it with toilet paper.
It used one of the 12g CO2 adapters threaded into pipe fittings, then a ball valve released the pressure into the barrel, which was a piece of 3-4" PVC.
I guess it is the same as a spud gun, but if you used harder projectiles it could be pretty destructive. It it could be scaled down, but would be better suited to a larger class (above 5kg) to simulate a Gauss cannon.