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rudukai13
08-01-2008, 05:55 PM
So just thinking about things that you could do with humanoid wrestling-techincally, if you had a robot that was large enough and strong enough, could you program a move so that it actually picks up its opponent and throws it out of the ring? I kno that balance and strength are going to be problems here, but is there anything else that I am missing?

Adrenalynn
08-01-2008, 06:00 PM
Sure - leverage and balance. I could throw a skyscraper across town if I just had enough of those two things. And an exoskeleton that wouldn't turn to dust under the pressure.

"Give me a lever long enough, and a fulcrum upon which to place it, and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

rudukai13
08-01-2008, 06:39 PM
But there's nothing in the rules that says it can't be done?

Adrenalynn
08-01-2008, 08:56 PM
[shrug] I don't have every wrestling events rules in front of me.

rudukai13
08-01-2008, 09:17 PM
Hmm...What do you think it would require to build? Like any specific servos or anything?

Adrenalynn
08-01-2008, 09:21 PM
That's an engineering and physics question. I believe it would need to be designed from the ground up for its task, thinking leverage the entire time. The more leverage you can find in your design, the less torque would be required.

DresnerRobotics
08-01-2008, 09:42 PM
If its not being done already in Robo-One, its probably for a good reason.

rudukai13
08-01-2008, 10:03 PM
Only a few years ago nobody was fighting humanoid robots and yet now you go on YouTube and you can find literally hundreds of videos disgnated to just that-If it's not being done already its just a question of how long it takes before it is done.

DresnerRobotics
08-01-2008, 10:35 PM
I'm just not sure the technology is there and at least somewhat accessible to individuals. Point being is that Robo-One has some of the worlds best humanoid bots, and none of them are anywhere near the ability to pick up and throw another bot in their weight class.

Adrenalynn
08-01-2008, 10:39 PM
I'm going to disagree with you here, Tyb. There are always trade-offs, but I don't buy for a moment that it "can't be done".

Give me ten minutes training your lovely wife, and she can show you - pregnant and all.

rudukai13
08-01-2008, 10:46 PM
The Robo-Games rules for humanoid wrestling says that the robot can be anywhere in height between 20cm and 120 cm and weight has no limit-now I'd say that a 120cm 6kg bot would have no problem throwing a 20cm 1.5kg bot. While most of the robots in the competition are (and I'm just guessing here) 50-60cm tall and 2-3kg, the rules allow for a robot twice the size and several times the weight, which is more then enough hardware to throw something that weighs half as much.

Adrenalynn
08-01-2008, 10:53 PM
Doesn't matter. I've taught many a 105lb 5'1 woman to throw a 280lb 6'5+ man. It's leverage, balance, and acceleration.

rudukai13
08-02-2008, 12:12 AM
Right. I'm just thinking a larger size would make it easier to do and not make the programming for the move that much more extensive.

Adrenalynn
08-02-2008, 01:17 AM
Unless you can monster dead lift someone, it's easier for small to throw large generally because it's easier to place the "fulcrum"

rudukai13
08-02-2008, 03:13 AM
I'm thinking something like this fight: YouTube - ROBO-ONE: Myro2 - A Humongous Humanoid Robot

Now the big one already has the claws, why not just write a program to reach out, grab, lift and throw? The servos that it needs just to move around would have to be strong enough to pick up the smaller robots, and then it's just a matter of swinging the arm. I'm actually thinking that lower hand would be more effective then upper in the case of these robots.

Electricity
08-02-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm thinking something like this fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMMnK3rcmC0
Now the big one already has the claws, why not just write a program to reach out, grab, lift and throw? The servos that it needs just to move around would have to be strong enough to pick up the smaller robots, and then it's just a matter of swinging the arm. I'm actually thinking that lower hand would be more effective then upper in the case of these robots.
Haha that was a really funny video.
Heres a thought, what if you made a bot that bear hugged the opponent, and then rolled backwards, hopefully hurling them across the ring.

darkback2
08-02-2008, 01:06 PM
I'll start by saying that I don't know that my idea would actually work, and this is just my opinion. My humanoid is an isobot...so I doubt I'll be winning a match any time soon...though sir isobot did do rather well against his much larger opponent at robogames...Which I suppose is proof that bigger is not always better.

In anycase I think I have seen a robot that hugs its opponent and falls over backwards. Turning that into a throwing technique would require that the robot let go at just the right time. it would also require that the throwbot initiate the motion at the right part of its body...you would want more of an arching motion than just falling over. The same could be said for picking up a robot using grippers, only the problem becomes more complex. When a robot lifts something, it has to change the location of its own center of gravity to account for the new mass. It seams like in watching fights robots are nocked down as much by their own attacks almost as much as they are by the attacks of others.

Matt Bauer described one technique that I think could be adapted to accomplish what you are looking to do. The throwbot would be outfitted with a sickle type weapon at the end of its right arm. When the opponent came into range, the throw bot would crouch down lowering its center of gravity, plant its left arm forming a tripod base, and swing its right arm up in an uppercut motion scraping the sickle on the ground, coming up and hopefully catching on some part of the underbits of its opponent. The arm if sufficiently strong could then continue its motion lifting the opponent up and "throwing" it.

Well...thats how I would do it.

DB

rudukai13
08-02-2008, 02:31 PM
Having a passive gripping system could work better then an actuated gripper because you wouldn't have to program the release into the hand, however it would have less control and wouldn't be as predictable-with the sickle you might just lift it an inch or two off the ground and then have it topple over. With a gripper and a large enough robot you could pick up the opponent, walk to the edge, and drop him off.