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sam
09-01-2008, 07:39 PM
Hello evryone!

So I wanted to open this thread for mini sumos. I want to build my own soon and I'm looking at a lot of motors, motor controllers, microntroller.

I wanted to have some info on the maxon motors a lot of people seem to be using. What are the RPMs With a load? 16500 without load seems still pretty fast. I also wanted to know how much current the motors use under stall?

I have my own ideas for the other things. I will talk about it latter on :wink:

Sam

JonHylands
09-01-2008, 08:14 PM
Sam,

The Maxon motors (http://www.robotshop.ca/home/suppliers/banebots-en/rbban01-banebots-planetary-gearmotor.html) I am using have a 17:1 gearbox on them, so their rated RPM is 970. In reality on a mini-sumo they aren't going to spin that fast, probably more like 600-700 RPM due to the load.

Note that even at 600 RPM, with 1" diameter tires (like I'm using), you're looking at 31 inches per second at full speed. A mini-sumo ring is 27" in diameter, so you're going to need to be very precise and very fast about responses. At 31" per second, in 1/10 second you're going to cover 3".

The stall current (http://www.robotshop.ca/PDF/rbban01-banebots-planetary-gearmotor-specs.pdf) is rated at just over 1.2 amps. I'm using a couple of this motor controller (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/711), although I might have used this one (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/712) if it would have existed when I designed Seeker 2x.

578

sam
09-02-2008, 06:20 PM
Ok, I thought that 16500 was WITH the gearbox, I was getting worried :wink:.

I was looking at this motor controller.

http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/411/faqs

It's small so I could connect it to the main board and it wouldn't take up too much space. The only downside is that it's rated 1 Amp max each motor. But I could put two controller boards to control two maxon motors.

JonHylands
09-02-2008, 07:03 PM
The PWM frequency for that controller isn't great - 600-750 Hz.

The one I am using is basically the same price, but handles 5 amps (2.5 amps continuous), can do 10 kHz PWM, and has an analog line that gives feedback on motor current consumption.

I guess it really depends on what you're using as a micro-controller. If you're using something like a Basic Stamp, which doesn't do motor PWM, then the serial model would be better.

sam
09-02-2008, 07:13 PM
Waht does the PWM frenquency does in a normal motor controller? It gives you better control over your motors?

The Basic Stamp can do PWM. Is that different than motor PWM?

Thanks for the information :D

JonHylands
09-02-2008, 07:38 PM
The Basic Stamp can do a very limited form of PWM. Basically, while its doing PWM on one pin, it can't do anything else. On a real micro-controller, you can set up the hardware PWM to do it, so it happens completely in the background, without consuming any CPU.

sam
09-02-2008, 08:13 PM
Humm, Well I have a Atmega 168 lying around, maybe I could use it for the mini-sumo. Would it be better with PWM?

The only trouble is that I don't with what language I can program it and how to connect it to my computer... Serial port?

JonHylands
09-02-2008, 08:41 PM
I use ATmega168's all the time. In fact, I'm putting one in my handheld remote kill switch. The 168 can do PWM in hardware no problem, and it has a lot of other nice features that make it ideal for small robots.

You can program it in C or Basic. I use gcc to program my ATmegas. You can definitely connect it to your computer using serial. I use a USB-TTL converter to allow me to get the AVR's serial port output on a serial console like HyperTerminal.

I use this programmer (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=ATAVRISP2-ND) for all my AVRs. Simple, USB, and it works great.

Adrenalynn
09-03-2008, 02:22 AM
In answer to your other question: A wider range gives you finer granularity of speed control.

mechanicleez
02-08-2009, 01:23 PM
Where might one purchase the Atmel 168 Programmable Integrated Circuit unit, What are the dimensional requirements for a regulation Miniature Sumo Automaton and what is the ideal conveyance units (electrical, electronic and Direct electrical Current motor). I have taken considerations in constructing a Miniature Sumo automaton chasis, but I have not considered the layers of conveyance to utilize in my construct, hence the questions I have posted to this, the Trossen Robotics Community thread. I am in need of assistance, as my queries may imply.

Adrenalynn
02-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Where might one purchase the Atmel 168 Programmable Integrated Circuit unit,


http://www.digikey.com
http://www.mouser.com



What are the dimensional requirements for a regulation Miniature Sumo Automaton and what is the ideal conveyance units (electrical, electronic and Direct electrical Current motor).


There are hundreds if not thousands of different Sumo events with different requirements and specifications. I fear your question is not specific enough to answer.



I have taken considerations in constructing a Miniature Sumo automaton chasis, but I have not considered the layers of conveyance to utilize in my construct, hence the questions I have posted to this, the Trossen Robotics Community thread. I am in need of assistance, as my queries may imply.

You have to help us help you. ;)

robologist
02-08-2009, 04:08 PM
Minisumo has a good explanation here, at the Robotroom (http://www.robotroom.com/SumoRules.html). There are additional examples on that site (http://www.robotroom.com/index.html#SUMO), as well as many others in Seattle, Portland, etc. The "ideal conveyance units" are pretty much what you feel comfortable controlling. Some of the more successful minisumos have been custom made, short and fast, however, some kits (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_sv/) have performed very well when properly built. That kit even has an Atmel Mega8 Brainboard (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_sv-atmel/) add-on, if that is the type of micro you'd like to try.

mechanicleez
02-09-2009, 03:42 PM
Hey thanks a lot guys for the info, sorry for not being specific. I was just foolin', what with this being a robotic community and being a fan of robotics, I thought I'd tool around as a robot or something. Well I just wanted to know more on these mini sumo bots and it's tourneys, I am relatively new to BEAM and sumo bots, hell I'm just now learning about them...and this site...well...for lack of a better word, is cool. No nerds just serious hobbyists. I've looked around the gallery and DAMN those bots are awesome (i still want to visit more pages for info and pics). I was never a big fan of anything...just in passing but after seeing the hobbyists here, man I can understand the draw to this sport. Well what I was really asking, is there a strict regulation size to a sumo bot? Like a certain weight, height, length? I am really a newbie to this...hell, to this info. thanks to you guys, Adrenalynn and robologist, I now know more today than yesterday...lol, I have an idea, it may be a bit unorthodox...i don't know? But I just don't know what to run this idea on, I don't know what electronic drives, motors, sensors and PICs (I guess) to use...just yet and that is basically what I was asking, for now I am going to run this idea of mine via the mini sumo bot featured in the book, "junkbots, bugbots and bots on wheels" as a test run and prototype to test if my idea is feasible (and possibly logical) I'll post pics after I complete the sumo bot chasis. Hey, keep up the good work...those bot really do look pretty cool, and again, Thanks for the info..i still have more questions, so....I'll be back! No? Not funy? oh the heck...off to look at more pages for info....see you guys alter...sorry, I meant later, alter is when we robots take over...lol

robologist
02-10-2009, 01:48 AM
Hey, hope you have fun building up and testing your idea. Minisumo is generally limited to a 500 gram weight and a 10 cm by 10 cm footprint. Some have developed "wedge" robots that stand on end to start to stay in that 10 by 10 rule, but do a quick back up to drop their wedge when the match starts, all perfectly legal. Minisumo typically has a 5 second wait on starting a match, and can be called in 3 minutes if no roobt appears to be getting the upper hand. There are some other rules, typically no damaging the ring or opponent, no magnetics, or vacuum, maybe a few others. The Robotroom link up above wiwll describe these fairly well, hope that helps.

mechanicleez
02-21-2009, 12:42 PM
Sorry for the late reply, got caught up and sidetracked at work. Hey, robologist thanks again for the info. I'm just now working on the chasis to my idea, (although I made a mock up using very cheap materials and the edgebot/sumobot idea in "The Good Book", Junkbots, Bugbots & Bots on Wheels), I realized I hit a snag. So it's back to re-thinking, re-designing and re-doing. One question (for everyone) would it be a good idea to invest in this, for starters?

http://www.junun.org/MarkIII/Info.jsp?item=1

or would this be a better "get feet wet for beginner" kind of project?

http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_sv/

for the sumovore they are offer varying [additional] brainboards I think they're programmable also which additional brainboard would be Ideal had I decided on the solarbotics sumovore kit?

http://www.solarbotics.com/search/?query=sumovore+atmel

Sumovore PICAXE Brainboard (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_sv-picaxe/)
Kit #11a - The Sumovore BS2 Brainboard (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_sv-bs2/)
Kit #11c - The Sumovore PIC Brainboard 2.0 (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_sv-pic/)

robologist
02-21-2009, 01:26 PM
I have the chassis parts for the Mark III, and the whole kit is a pretty nice set up that the builders in Portland came up with. Later developed kit minisumos include the Parallax Sumobot, the Solarbotics Sumovore, and the JCM Sam rI, have not seen the last personally but have built a mini using the Tamiya twin gearbox before. Of all the minis, I believe that the Sumovore is the most capable out of the box. Each one can probably be modified and tuned to outperform the others, but the Sumovore seems to have the most wins in competition with other minisumos. And the cool thing you've seen is the ability to switch around to a micro that you're comfortable with.

Azinman
04-13-2009, 11:32 AM
Wow this thread is a little bit old so I'm not sure which one mechanicleez went with, but I have the Sumovore from Parallaz and it its a nice kit (one of the first kit-bots I made) it comes preprogrammed but you can switchout the brainboards for different programmable microcontrollers so I'll vouch for the sumovore. :D