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View Full Version : Mech Wars on Microsoft's Channel 9 show!



DresnerRobotics
09-05-2008, 04:45 PM
http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/This+Week+On+Channel+9/This-Week-on-C9-Dynamic-Silverlight-VSTS-buying-Caio-and-Mech-Wars/

Woohoo! They talk about it for almost 2 minutes, starting around 7:10

Adrenalynn
09-05-2008, 04:57 PM
I was just about to try to come "scoop" this. Ya beat me to it. Grats on the awesome coverage!!!

crabfu
09-05-2008, 07:15 PM
Man that's awesome, good to see coverage this early on, without much eye candy yet... that proves it's a great idea that's going to catch on big :)

-Crabfu

4mem8
09-05-2008, 08:57 PM
So cool Tyberius, If I can get my mech up and running the way I would like it to run I would not mind sending it to Trossen Robotics C/O Tyberius and enter it on my behalf, How does that sound Tyberius!.

Adrenalynn
09-06-2008, 09:16 PM
So cool Tyberius, If I can get my mech up and running the way I would like it to run I would not mind sending it to Trossen Robotics C/O Tyberius and enter it on my behalf, How does that sound Tyberius!.

The big question is: Could we set it up so you could run it from NZ... :)

4mem8
09-06-2008, 11:54 PM
Adrenalynn, I think there would be to much interferance with all that metal in the roofing, I take it that it is an old building with a lot of steel in it. could be a problem to control it from here in NZ.

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 03:12 AM
Not really - cell phones were working fine when I was there. Sure - a ton of lag, but still kinda cool conceptually... ;)

Nocturnal
09-07-2008, 03:24 AM
That would be very cool, but latency would be a killer. You'd need some automatic assistance.

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 03:45 AM
Nod. As I noted - ton'o'lag, but hey - doesn't say he has to "win" - even competing would be a first.

Could do a relay through my datacenters. He could bounce off my east coast DC which has under 40ms lag to Australia, and once he got on the fiber it's a ~15ms hop to SF. 55ms-ish wouldn't be all that bad. I've certainly played Quake with faaar worse back in the bad old days. ;)

4mem8
09-07-2008, 05:35 AM
M'mmm let's see if we can get it going first and walking as it should, That's the first big hurdle for me. But a good thought on the other communication idea's though.

Nocturnal
09-07-2008, 11:50 AM
:) If this is a route that you think you might want to go down, a bit of thought now, before you get too far along would be a good idea. Since the method of command and control you decide upon will affect how easy it is to control remotely over the net.

For example, the Mech I've been building in my head, is controlled entirely over Wi-Fi. Which would make it almost plug and play, if there was a wireless network with internet access handy. Compared to say, a Mech controlled by something similar to a standard R/C controller with a 2.4ghz wireless camera, which would be much harder to be setup to work over the net.

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 11:51 AM
IMHO, anyone that uses a 2.4ghz ntsc camera has already surrendered.

Nocturnal
09-07-2008, 11:55 AM
:) I don't think I would go that far, but based off my experiences with them, if anyone nearby is using any device, that also uses the 2.4ghz range, they are in trouble.

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 12:02 PM
Or if it's moving. Or someone is standing in front of the LoS and bodyshielding it. Or if there's a lot of moisture in the air (like the waves from the bay against the pilings under the building). Or if it's just cranky that day. Or if someone's bluetooth cell rings in the neighborhood...

Sorry - after doing installs and support on a few hundred of 'em, I'm pretty down on 2.4Ghz - even in the commercial space. 5.8 is better. 1.2 rocks if you have a badge and a license (law-enforcement band in the US) and don't need more than a couple channels. 900 is pretty solid if you only need a couple channels. UHF rocks if you only need one channel and will be moving around.

Nocturnal
09-07-2008, 12:15 PM
I bow to your superior experience.

DresnerRobotics
09-07-2008, 12:22 PM
I bow to your superior experience.

Robogames is also quite a noisy environment, so getting reliable radio control will be a challenge.

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 12:22 PM
Naw, no need for all that. Like I say - I'm just down on 'em...

Check out the video of Andrew's cute little car with the Swann on it - ideal circumstances, but it moves. Instant breakup. :) That's just 2.4... I've got a bunch of high-end ~$1000+ 2.4 transmitters laying around here that behave similarly even with 14dB patch antennas on the transmitter and 30+dB Yagi's on the receiver.

It's a wonder that WiFi works as well as it does.

I have those transmitters, btw, because we had to swap out dozens of the darned things for 5.8 - which works better until there's "weather". :)

Nocturnal
09-07-2008, 12:29 PM
*laughs* Lot of discussion for something that I wasn't actually proposing as a control method, just using as an easy counter example for network-ability.

gdubb2
09-07-2008, 12:46 PM
It's a good discussion though.. And necessary. If 2.4 is a problem, what are we to do?? At the moment, I'm using a 2.4 wireless gamepad for control, but if you then add a 2.4 camera (IP or with receiver), what happens?? Is Bluetooth any better than an el cheapo lashup, I am certainly not a guru, and have to rely on superiour knowledge and experience.

Gary

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 01:15 PM
Nod, understood Nocturnal.

GDubb - I'm suggesting WiFi cameras. Even at 2.4 they seem pretty stable. Bluetooth just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I'm not sure one could even guarantee that the operator will be within the 15' or so that you really need for 100% effective bluetooth - especially in a noisy environment. The freq-hopping that gets done on 802.11g or even better mimo just seems to get WiFi through when nothing else will.

DresnerRobotics
09-07-2008, 01:17 PM
Wasn't Matt Bauer saying that bluetooth was working quite well at one of the humanoid fighting competitions when other methods were having issues?

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 01:23 PM
Aren't they like 2' from their bots, and not surrounded by metal and lexan shielding?

4mem8
09-07-2008, 01:29 PM
So, with all this debate going on, What are we going to use for control in the final event, If I am to plan for something I need to know, Is anything set in concrete yet?.

gdubb2
09-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Thanks Adrenalynn, I still have to get a camera. The control problem is still there for a lot of us. I have tried my bot with Hitecs IR, R/C, Bluetooth, and now the wireless gamepad. Of those, the IR and R/C were pure crap due to latency, and Hitecs poor way of handeling R/C comms. The Bluetooth and PS2 worked well, albeit in a quiet environment. I think I may just plan for either/or, and build both in.

Old people shouldn't have to think so much..I'm gray enough now..

Thanks
Gary

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 01:43 PM
I'm going with Zigbee for control and WiFi for the camera.

I'm going with near HD quality for the camera, but it may be out of the price range of some.

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_207mw/index.htm

It has a rockinly cool API...

The 207w is a 480 line for $250, quite a bit less expensive.

4mem8
09-07-2008, 01:58 PM
Cool camera Adrenalynn. Have to save some $'s

Nocturnal
09-07-2008, 02:37 PM
Is that the same camera as you were talking about over in the Wireless Video (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showthread.php?t=1932) thread Adrenalynn?

Adrenalynn
09-07-2008, 02:39 PM
The cheaper camera we're having trouble getting sourcing on. I'd TO'd it to Tyberius, but he's having trouble even getting responses.