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elios
09-27-2008, 06:47 PM
how 'bout laser targeting for weapon systems?

maybe like a red laser for the left bb shooter and green for the right bb shooter, a webcam interface can then determine where the barrels are pointing and can move the guns for track and trace shooting and autonomous roving and firing or just so the pilot has visual aid?

what do you guys think?

DresnerRobotics
09-27-2008, 07:51 PM
Absolutely allowed and encouraged. Personally I'm just going to stick with manual aiming for year 1, but still planned on having 1 laser pointer for a visual aid per gun.

elios
09-27-2008, 07:57 PM
yep, is the laser allowed to accidentally lock on to the persons camera...? 10mW

elios
09-27-2008, 08:00 PM
in the rules it says no electronic weapons ie emp tasers etc, does that mean an array of IR LEDs as well?

4mem8
09-27-2008, 08:02 PM
elios: I would not like the laser to lock on to the camera, as this will blind the vision, i think that Tyberius has stated this somewhere in other posts that you cannot interfere with the vision.

elios
09-27-2008, 08:41 PM
:tongue:

elios
09-28-2008, 10:16 PM
elios: I would not like the laser to lock on to the camera, as this will blind the vision, i think that Tyberius has stated this somewhere in other posts that you cannot interfere with the vision.

i think i raised a good point... if you had a battle simulating night time, and the cameras have night vision, doesn't night vision use IR? if you had two cameras at night, looking at each other, wouldn't they blind/cancel each other out????:confused:

4mem8
09-28-2008, 11:15 PM
That's true elios, and probably would not be allowed, However I do not think there will be night vision battles, But that could change I guess in the later years of Mech warfare. That would be Tyberius's call.

Adrenalynn
09-28-2008, 11:54 PM
Nope, they don't. The angle of incidence on night vision cameras is very low ["critical angle"]. They'd have to be pretty exactly lined-up.

4mem8
09-28-2008, 11:57 PM
Cool, Thanks for clearing that up Adrenalynn, I was not totally sure about that.

DresnerRobotics
09-29-2008, 12:02 AM
I don't forsee any night battles in the near future. Going to be hard enough to pilot these in the daytime ;)

elios
09-29-2008, 12:20 AM
thanks,.

might be entertaining tho. all you would have to do is program in some sub-routines that can take care of the robots main instruments, ie legs etc, then just need a joystick with a trigger!

maybe have auto targeting to assist with shooting lol.

Sienna
09-29-2008, 07:11 PM
Which other post was "not blinding" the other driver mentioned? I can see placing a reasonable restriction on laser power (10mw say to avoid crowd blinding), but I cannot see whats wrong with trying to hold that laser on the other mech's camera. It won't physically hurt the opposing mech, so why prohibit it?

DresnerRobotics
09-29-2008, 07:17 PM
It's going to be hard enough to pilot these things without having to worry about camera blindness. I don't think anyone should intentionally try to blind another player. Its about 'destroying' your opponent with your weapons, not making it even more frustrating for them to try to pilot.

Adrenalynn
09-29-2008, 07:18 PM
Considering that the critical angle typical for blinding a CCTV CCD camera with a laser-pointer is +/- a couple degrees from the focal plane - if you can manage it, more power to you. Of course, with that kind of control you should also be able to pound a couple thousandths of an inch target all day long from clear across the arena and become the instant winner - but [shrug]...

DresnerRobotics
09-29-2008, 07:21 PM
Right, not saying its feasible. I'm just saying I'd just as soon make it frowned upon and not have to worry about someone showing up with 200 IR LEDs mounted on their mech :P

Adrenalynn
09-29-2008, 07:37 PM
I'm thinking about showing-up with a can of freon mounted on mine... The advantages are endless. Can you imagine what an airsoft BB would do to those cute plastic brackets that have been instantly cooled to a couple dozen degrees below zero? Or maybe some liquid nitrogen - ala Terminator 2.

It has the further advantage of icing someones guns, rendering their camera useless, ... yeah, "CRYOBOT". That's a definite winner. "CryOveryourBot ending-up in thousands of shards"...

elios
09-29-2008, 07:43 PM
kool. Whats the story with having lights on your mech, for looks of course...

as i can get 1watt LEDs, and i was thinking of have two "arrays" of these

4mem8
09-29-2008, 11:34 PM
That was an interesting talk we had about those 1w LEDs, Might just mount two on my J5's body panels. "Let there be light."

elios
09-30-2008, 12:11 AM
i can get them for $5, from brightsparks, each for you

4mem8
09-30-2008, 12:14 AM
K, I will see you about it.

Sienna
11-01-2008, 03:19 PM
About laser targeting:

I am thinking it would be wise for all bot builder's to add a bore sighted (to a reasonable degree at least) laser to their bots. I was playing with my CCTV camera and an airsoft gun, trying to see if its possible to trace the BBs from the gun on the monitor.

End result, no, the BBs are invisible on the monitor. So, there is going to be no real way to "aim" using a BB stream I think.

Of course, when you do the math, it makes sense. Say the BB is traveling at 200fps (which is probably within reach for some of the plastic guns). An 8x8 foot arena has the longest dimension of ~11ft. The time for the BB to travel 11 feet is only 0.055 seconds. If the video stream is refreshing at 30Hz, that means the BB will be present (assuming of course the camera notices it) for one frame. So, yeah, it does make sense why you can't see BBs in the video stream.

Hence, for this reason, I think everyone will want a laser or other targeting system on their bots.

(On a side note, I was also thinking about using laser line generators to draw a line in the camera's FOV that designated the "Edge" of the robot. I was thinking this could make remote piloting easy if I knew where the robot's horizontal dimensions were.)

For reference, last time it was chrono'ed, the airsoft gun I was using was shooting 18 rounds per second. While that is not high for an airsoft gun, I think it is far more then any of the year 1 bots will be capable of. Even with a 1:2 chance of seeing BBs on screen, I still couldn't see them.

4mem8
11-01-2008, 04:18 PM
Interesting thoughts sienna, Thanks for the info.

billyzelsnack
11-01-2008, 07:33 PM
The arena has gotta have "smoke" if we're having lasers!

elios
11-01-2008, 08:36 PM
haha yea, that would be a good idea

4mem8
11-01-2008, 09:32 PM
Dry ice would look so cool with lasers.

Adrenalynn
11-01-2008, 10:14 PM
I have a bunch of "smoke machines" we used for video production. They're pretty high volume, and would easily saturate a space that small.

elios
11-01-2008, 10:36 PM
cool, bring 'em along too!

darkback2
11-02-2008, 10:05 AM
I had a thought...after the rounds of 1 on 1, how about the highest ranking mechs get to choose a partner from the lowest ranking mechs for a 2 on 2 match...Seamed like a good way to keep people involved even after they have lost out.

Though for year one I'm pretty sure we will all have multiple matches against multiple people.

DB

4mem8
11-02-2008, 11:08 AM
Sound like a cool idea DB.

DresnerRobotics
11-03-2008, 09:51 AM
About laser targeting:

I am thinking it would be wise for all bot builder's to add a bore sighted (to a reasonable degree at least) laser to their bots. I was playing with my CCTV camera and an airsoft gun, trying to see if its possible to trace the BBs from the gun on the monitor.

End result, no, the BBs are invisible on the monitor. So, there is going to be no real way to "aim" using a BB stream I think.




Totally agree here. I think everyone should strongly consider having bore sighted lasers for aiming.

Personally, I'm using these: http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/5605-Laser-Module-Red-with-TTL-Control.aspx

Super light and compact, very easy to hookup. MUCH easier than trying to remove one from a laser pointer casing. If you just want on/off with the rest of your system you don't even need to control the TTL signal. Just hook power up to them and you're ready to go.