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Rokon
10-12-2008, 10:30 AM
I just joined this group a few days ago and have been lurking and reading from the sidelines. Alot of interesting info on this sight. I have taken the plunge and ordered a Robobuilder kit which is supposed to arrive in a few days. I'm really excited to start messing with it!!! I don't really have any experience in robotics although I do have a solid electronics, mechanics, fabrication background. My biggest weakness is programing and computers. I've scoured the net to find info on the Robobuilder and have some questions. Nowhere have I found what operating system the included software is compatible with. I'm hoping it will run on my new Vistas laptop.....
I also wonder where to purchase various pieces..... Trossen lists the servo units but not the connectors.... the wheel units, where are those to be found???
On the korean site I am unable to get the video clips to play, they load but the frame stays black... no pop ups saying I need to download a media player or anything. Anyone have any ideas on what needs to happen to view these files????
The Utube videos of this robot are impressive....

Where the hell is that UPS truck!!!!!

Rokon

DresnerRobotics
10-12-2008, 11:21 AM
We have the servos available as additional units, and each one comes with a servo connector wire. We also have a variety of accessories coming in the near future for them.

No word on Vista compatibility. I had someone call last week asking that, and wasn't able to find anything regarding the offical support. In theory, I don't see why it shouldn't, but if you run into issues you might try running the software in compatibility mode.

Edit: Oh and welcome to the Community!

Rokon
10-12-2008, 11:44 AM
That was me that called! You returned my call the next day but I was at work. Bit the bullet and ordered the kit regardless.
In reference to the servo, I didn't mean the wire harness, I meant the plastic connector between modules. I was interested in the additional servos for swiveling hips or to make a spiderbot. I realize that being a new product it would be only a matter of time before all the goodies are readily availble.
I'm sure I'll have my hands full with what comes with the kit.
Does anyone know if there are spares of anything included with the Robobuilder Kit??

Rokon

DresnerRobotics
10-12-2008, 02:52 PM
There are a good amount of extra parts left over even after building the humanoid. We're going to be offering "Joint Sets" as well that will have a selection of those connecting joints that go in between the servos, but you'll have some extra with your kit as well.

4mem8
10-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Rokon: Welcome to this forum, great to have you here. Don't forget to post about your robo builder kit, We are all ears.

Rokon
10-12-2008, 07:12 PM
I will do that 4mem8. You have a great website. The RoboSapien was my first bot. I purchased it when they first came out. Never did hack it although I always wanted to. My ferrets used to tag team my RS. What a riot! Looked like a bad WWV match!

Rokon

Alex
10-13-2008, 02:17 PM
All of Robobuilder's software is compatible with Vista. The RBC Firmware Upgrade Tool I'm not 100% on though. They were supposed to have it compatible with Vista by the end of September, but I don't see a recent version of the software added to their downloads section.

Rokon
10-13-2008, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the reply Alex. Thats one less thing to worry about. My kit may arrive tomorrow, but more than likely on wednesday. I can't wait to get started on this!!!
Rokon

Rokon
10-13-2008, 11:29 PM
Can someone tell me if it will be feasible to interface standard hobby RC servos to the Robobuilder controller? I've been into RC aircraft over 25 years and have a boatload of servos of every description from full size to sub micro picos that are only a few grams. Mechanically, I can handily fabricate a tilt/pan neck and some type of gripper. This bot control is all new to me. I realize the limitations of these servos but for none demanding fluff goodies I'd like to use them. Any guideance??? Kit hasn't arrived yet and I already want to hack into it!!
The 3 axis axcelaration sensor I would think is high on the desire list. The videos I've seen of bots responding to these inputs is amazing. Seems like a must have on a biped...
Whats the best way to crash learn the basics of this hobby? I've found alot of good info on several forums. I think buying the Robobuilder may be of some hinderance as it is so new and there are not alot particulars on it out there, but I'm sure that it will expand.
Thanks for any help,


Rokon

Adrenalynn
10-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Not without some pretty major hardware engineering. Robobuilder's controller doesn't send out PWM directly.

Rokon
10-14-2008, 12:33 AM
Thats a bummer. I wonder if you could hack the internals of a Robobuilder servo liberating its circuit to drive a physically small PWM servo less the encoder feedback?? I just like the idea of a tilt/pan head with a camera........
Rokon

DresnerRobotics
10-14-2008, 12:48 AM
Probably would just be a lot easier to use two of the Robobuilder servos to do it.

Adrenalynn
10-14-2008, 01:19 AM
Probably would just be a lot easier to use two of the Robobuilder servos to do it.

Absolutely.

Rokon
10-16-2008, 08:54 AM
My Creator Kit 5720T arrived on schedule yesterday from Trossen and I was like a little kid at Christmas!!! I was impressed with the kit. It wasn't overly packaged, no parts to trim from trees, and the only defect was one pre-bent screw. Plenty of spare hardware and alot of spare parts to allow experimentation. The instruction book was well done and the illustrations are excellent. As a first-time bot builder I had no problems with assembly and it went off without a hitch. My only piece of confusion with the assembly was understanding one of the pictures showing the alignment of one of the servo joints because it was hard to see the highlighted red area in the picture due to contrast and the angle depicted....that and old eyes!! (step 11 of huno). I did get it correct however. Overall it took a few hours to build.
The moment of truth came after charging the battery and I powered him up. Home postion was spot on so that attests to the assembly directions being easy enough to follow. I did not have to use the plastic tray to set the home postion as it was perfect.
Checking out the remote I tried him out....it's alive!!!!
I was disappointed that the forward walk is only a few steps, I think he should keep walking until you tell him to stop. The other bummer was there was only one preloaded action loaded on the number keys, a hand wave. There should be a slew of moves already there so that there would be better play/ demo value out of the box. I guess I have to jump into programing right off the bat.
The software loaded onto my Vista laptop ok, the cd was badly out of balance though.
The wCK program opens with a fault so there is a problem there. I have to go get a usb/serial converter so right now I'm stuck.
The other thing I just realised is that this kit came with the distance sensor, the instructions don't mention it at all. I don't see any sign of it in the limited running I've done. It looks like there is a connector in his head other than the existing lead. I'm wondering if your supposed to jack a servo cable lead into this and connect to one of the spare connections on the controller??
Anyone know??
I'm off to buy an usb adapter.......stay tuned.............

Rokon

Rift
10-16-2008, 09:27 AM
If I'm not mistaken the distance sensor is controlled through the ActionBuilder software. Also if your cd is out of balance I would recommend getting all the latest software/firmware right from the Robobuilder website. Not sure what versions of the software came with your kit but I know that with mine i needed to update everything.

If you look straight into his head you should see these two eye looking things (refer to my pictures for an example) thats the distance sensor. From my understand all it needs is programing through the ActionBuilder software no extra cables needed. I could be wrong about this though as I haven't played with the sensor yet. Still tackeling MotionBuilder.


Rift

Rokon
10-16-2008, 10:17 AM
Hey Rift
I can see the "eyes" you mentioned, the sensor is there. Motionbuilder is version 1.0, firmware is unknown. Just got back with a usb/serial adapter, so I'll see if I can figure things out. Your right about updates being available, The latest seem to require the accellaration module which I don't have. I'm going to see if I can link my pc....

Rokon

Rift
10-16-2008, 10:30 AM
You should be able to run all the latest software without the accelerometer that's just another optional upgrade for him.

If you plug Robobuilder up to your computer you can use the firmware update utility to check your firmware version and update accordingly.

Rift

Adrenalynn
10-16-2008, 12:15 PM
Just an outsider-comment: From my observations at RoboGames, a single walk-cycle returning to resting position is typical behavior from the kits in general, not just this one.

Glad to hear it went easily for you - when are you posting the videos? As Matt harangs me: "If there's no video, it didn't happen" ;)

Rokon
10-16-2008, 12:39 PM
I will readily admit to being a computer weinie, I may have to borrow someone's kid to help out with this mess. I didn't have much luck getting the updates installed. I'll try again tonight after work. I did link the bot to my pc ok so thats a start. I wasn't able to determine the firmware version. The version of RBCU I have is in korean.... There wasn't any version of Actionbuilder installed either...there are updates available though.
I will attempt some videos of my fumbling. Can these be posted here or is Utube the prefered site??
I also haven't seen how you assign a motion file to a specific remote button. Any tips???

Rokon

Rift
10-16-2008, 01:25 PM
Were you able to install anything of the CD itself or is that completely bummed? If you were able to run the initial installs from the CD then updating will be a bit more simple. From what iv seen none of these programs actually have installers most likely because there so small.

What you want to do is grab all the updates from there website they will be in .zip formats. Then go to your C drive and into the programs folder. Somewhere in there, should be a Robobuilder folder (I can't remember the exact name of the directory and I'm not at home to check right now) or something pertaining to Robobuilder.

Once in that folder you should see a separate folder for each of the individual programs. Except for ActionBuilder and i believe the Firmware Update utility. For the programs that have folders already you will have to extract all the update files that you downloaded for each Individual program to there respective program folders. What this does is update each of the programs with there latest builds, since there so small there is no installer for them. Once you do that you can create shortcuts to them for easier access.

For ActionBuilder and the Firmware Update utility you will have to create folders like the rest of the programs have, and extract the files you downloaded into them.

The reason your firmware update is in Korean is because you just ran the .exe file you have to make sure that the .INI and .exe files are together in one folder because the .INI holds all the settings for the program. That should make it show up as English.

IF you weren't able to install anything of the CD you will have to Manually create a Folder within the program files folder. Once you do that you have to create a folder for each of the programs inside that folder. Then you can extract each of the updates into there respective folders and you should be all set.

Let us know how it goes if you still have trouble i can make some Screenshots for you later tonight to illustrate it a bit better.

EDIT: To put motion files onto the Robot you need to use the MotionBuilders Download Function which puts them on the robots chip. With this software its actually a bit reverse Download is basically Upload to the Robot.

On a side note there's also a nice PDF Tutorial on there website for MotionBuilder that has a lot of nice little tips.

Rift

Rokon
10-17-2008, 09:26 AM
Thanks for the reply Rift. I've been trying to get the updates installed but not having very much success. Vista is new to me and I'm struggling.... I've never updated a program without an installer. I've gotten all the new files downloaded and extracted, guess I don't know where they ended up...I'm quite sure the last motionbuilder 1.13 was put into the 1.0 file but upon running the program its still v1.0 Frustrations are running high and I'm going to go split wood for awhile.
I like analog axes!!!!!!

Rokon

Rift
10-17-2008, 11:16 AM
When you go to extract the files you have to make sure you extract the files into the proper folders.

What I mean by this is each of the .zip files that you downloaded contains the updated program files for that particular program. So the MotionBuilder update that you downloaded has to be extracted to the MotionBuilder folder on your hard drive. This applies to all the updates that you downloaded.


Rift

Rokon
10-18-2008, 05:48 PM
I've been able to spend some more time slogging thru the software updates and now seem to have motionbuilder, actionbuilder, Wck current and functional. I'm still having some issues with the RBCU. There isn't a software update online for this installer and I'm not sure that I got a good load from my cd. I haven't attempted to do a firmware upgrade for fear of buggering it up. I'm also not sure of where to place the new firmware file, in its own folder? In the RBCU folder? Or, Motionbuilder folder.
I printed the pdf manual files and assembled a ring binder that has been very helpful in getting started.
I have made and uploaded my first set of scenes and got the bot to wildly flail his arms about with the push of a button. I've also discovered that this whole motion programing thing isn't all that easy to do. I can see that developing a stride is tricky to say the least. Tonight I'm going to try downloading some of the availble motion files and upload them to the bot. I need to see what these sequences look like on the motionbuilder tables for some guidance.
I have noticed something in the home postioning I don't understand. Upon powering up the bot and pressing the red remote button he says hello and assumes a posture. The 2nd scenario is upon powering up you hold the pf1 button and he slowly assumes the home position. The kicker is these two homes are not the same. The 2nd way the bot is more erect and taller. Why is this? Should I recalibrate the home position with the plastic tray?? Could this be why the A button standup isn't succesful but the B standup is?
Definitely a coool bot. The programing learning curve is going to be steep for me due to a total lack of experience. I will probably need to make use of downloadable files and maybe tweak those to gain some experience. There aren't many posted as of yet though...
I did make one physical improvement to the robobuilder. I removed his alum. soles and deburred the bottoms, radiused the edges and then polished them up. After reinstall his walking was much straighter and not scratching anything. It also made the turning and sideways movements smoother.
I'd really like to develop a slower, higher stepping stride that would be successful on a short napped carpet.
And he needs a name...........
And my ferret is looking concerned.....

Rokon

Rokon
10-19-2008, 08:22 AM
Has anyone successfully downloaded and run any of the shared motion files from robobuilder.net?? I can't seem to be able to get anything to download from this list of moves, nor watch any of the videos demostrating the file....
thanks,
Rokon

Alex
10-20-2008, 12:28 PM
I've been able to spend some more time slogging thru the software updates and now seem to have motionbuilder, actionbuilder, Wck current and functional. I'm still having some issues with the RBCU. There isn't a software update online for this installer and I'm not sure that I got a good load from my cd. I haven't attempted to do a firmware upgrade for fear of buggering it up.

I thought we replaced all of the bad ones, but you may have gotten one of the bad CD's. I'd uninstall the software via "Add/Remove Programs" and make sure that the RoboBuilder folder is gone from C:\Program Files. If not, delete it (making sure to backup any custom motions you created).



I'm also not sure of where to place the new firmware file, in its own folder? In the RBCU folder? Or, Motionbuilder folder.

It doesn't matter where to save it. Just specify the location in the file location box in the Firmware Upgrade Tool.



Has anyone successfully downloaded and run any of the shared motion files from robobuilder.net??

There aren't too many videos associated with the motions, but...

You need to register your RBC on the Robobuilder site before you can download the motion files.

I just finished uploading all of them to our Data Center thought:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=16

when you make some new motions, feel free to show them off by uploading them to the data center;)



edit: I also just uploaded some other RoboBuilder stuff:

Manuals:
http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=21


Software:
http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=18

robotteh
10-20-2008, 04:05 PM
Rokon or Anyone,

Sounds like you and I are at about the same stage of hashing out the RoboBuilder software. I have mastered creating and running/downloading multiple MotionBuilder files, and and the same for ActionBuilder files. Two things, though, seem very limiting unless there is a way around them.

1. Is there any way to stop an ActionBuilder file from running aside from manually turning the RBC off as specified in the ActionBuilder Manual?

2. The MotionBuilder interface includes a repeat motion checkbox that works fine if a PC is controlling the bot through the serial cable. But, download this same file and the program runs but once, and even if it did keep repeating, how could the program be stopped using the IR remote? It appears the bot ignores the remote while a motion is running.

I can't figure out how to program continuous walking or any other continuous actions without answering these questions. Help!

Rokon
10-20-2008, 11:04 PM
Alex,
I did register the s/n on robobuilder.net but I haven't gotten any response when clicking the download icon for their motion file sharing. I had no problem downloading the files you posted on this site but it states no regcode If I try to load them to the bot. How do I do this on the trossen site? Course I did'nt realize there were files to download either........so I'll look around some. I just got home so I'll mess about for abit.....stay tuned!!


Rokon

Your ahead of me Robtteh!!!
Have you used any of the shared files yet??? I've only had my bot 5 days and its all greek to me.
I'm having fun and I didn't want it to be too easy anyway....want some entertainment this winter.

Rokon

Rokon
10-20-2008, 11:39 PM
I went back to robonet, my s/n shows up on the my page. Still can't download from their site and the downloads from this site won't upload to the bot because of no serialcode. What do I do now???

Rokon

Alex
10-21-2008, 09:50 AM
I did register the s/n on robobuilder.net but I haven't gotten any response when clicking the download icon for their motion file sharing.

I totally forgot.. are you using Internet Explorer? I tried Chrome, Firefox and IE. IE was the only browser that the site would allow me to use to download the files.



I had no problem downloading the files you posted on this site but it states no regcode If I try to load them to the bot. How do I do this on the trossen site?

Hmm.... I didn't realize that these files wouldn't work on other people's RBC's.... I'll have to contact RoboBuilder and talk to them and get back to you.

Rokon
10-21-2008, 09:55 AM
Must be the browser, I use firefox....I'll try with IE.

Thanks,
Rokon

Rokon
10-21-2008, 10:18 AM
Well it was definitely the browser, Using IE on robonet allowed me to view the motion videos and download the shared motion files. I downloaded one and attempted to upload to the bot but got the same "no serialcode" message when opening the file.
I registered my s/n using Firefox on the robonet site, although the number is now listed in "my page" I assume that due to firefox it didn't complete the process. Am I screwed now??? Should I delete my s/n and identity and start again using Explorer?

Rokon

Alex
10-21-2008, 10:33 AM
Yeah, just delete it. Just to be sure, you're typing in the serial number (below the UPC or whatever) and not the model number above the UPC, right?

Rokon
10-21-2008, 10:40 AM
Yes, I used the serial number at the bottom, even dug a loupe out to make sure I read it right. Robonet states you can't make any changes after registering, once deleted you can't re-register unless your ID is different. That stinks......

Rokon

Rokon
10-21-2008, 11:31 AM
This is just getting better and better. Robonet won't allow me to delete the serial number.....

Rokon

Alex
10-21-2008, 12:02 PM
Rokon & Rift - please check your PM.

Rokon
10-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Alex,

Is there anything you can do to delete my presence on Robonet. ?? I can't delete anything and this is my biggest hangup. I think if I can reregister my bots s/n using IE I can use the shared files. I can PM you my user name and password as soon as I find the PM window.

Thanks,
Rokon

Adrenalynn
10-22-2008, 11:11 AM
Click here to send a private message to Alex (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=2)

Alex
10-22-2008, 11:24 AM
Go ahead and PM me your login info. I don't have any more access than you do, but I'll certainly give it a shot:) Maybe it'll work on my computer.

robotteh
10-23-2008, 11:25 AM
Rokon

Your ahead of me Robtteh!!!
Have you used any of the shared files yet??? I've only had my bot 5 days and its all greek to me.
I'm having fun and I didn't want it to be too easy anyway....want some entertainment this winter.

Rokon,
Yes, I have successfully downloaded, run, and then downloaded to the RBC, motions from Robobuilder.net. I have also encountered the serial number error messages, and inability to change the serial number, when attempting to download to the RBC. My first attempt at a workaround, however, worked fine.

Create a new Project (as Project software seems to remember serial numbers), add just the initial position scene, and check that the serial number is blank or all zeros. Open the target motion under a different Project, right click/copy all the scenes, then go back to your new project/motion and right click/paste/insert the transferred scenes just below the initial position scene. Delete scene 2, the transferred initial scene, and the motion should run and download OK.

Good Luck, Rototteh

Adrenalynn
10-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Nice hack, robotteh, great community support! +rep from me!

Rokon
10-23-2008, 12:38 PM
I gave it a quick try but I didn't make it thru it. When I try to get the second project to open using downloaded file handstands1.rbm it states "project open failed"
I've run out of time and have to go to work, will try some more tonight. Thanks for the input, I sure hope it works.
I take it you can't enter the s/n manually....I can't input anything into the field.

Rokon

Alex
10-24-2008, 09:02 AM
Hi Rokon,

I talked to RoboBuilder a bit and they gave me an exe file that double checks your S/N:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=133

ignore the commas, and see if the number that displays is the S/N listed on your RBC.

EDIT If the numbers do match up, could you send me a zip with all of your motion files that you've downloaded off of the RoboBuilder site?

Rokon
10-24-2008, 09:12 AM
I ran the file and the s/n matches....so that is good. Let me work on putting together the downloaded files.
Rokon

Rokon
10-24-2008, 09:34 AM
Alex
I sent 3 files to your email.

thanks,
Rokon

Alex
10-28-2008, 10:46 AM
Hi Rokon,

RoboBuilder just sent me some motion files for you to try:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=134

I haven't tested these myself, so you'd be the first to test them:) I don't believe these require registration.

let me know how it goes! I'm waiting to hear back from RoboBuilder regarding your other questions.

Rokon
10-29-2008, 08:34 AM
I was able to upload and run these new files on my RBC. It's alive!!! I'm a happy camper now!!
The ledlightshow is pretty cool.....

Rokon