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No0bert
01-24-2009, 06:55 AM
I recently bought two used Jazzy Wheelchair motors, and I am not willing to spend 200-ish dollars on a suitable motor controller. What I wonder is how to use a scooter motor controller? Has anyone interfaced them before? What was your outcome? Thanks!

EDIT: Also does a springed DC Motor require PWM, or can I just connect it to a regular output and send high and low commands?

No0bert
01-26-2009, 07:07 AM
Bump?

darkback2
01-26-2009, 08:07 AM
You may want to add the specs on the two motors. I currently use vantec dual motor (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/VT-RDFR21.html) controllers on my rovers. Seam OK at 12 volts and decent amounts of amps. Those are the two parts you have to worry about. Volts and Amps (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/2666-DC-Motor-Controllers.aspx).

As for controlling the motors...There should be two thick wires coming off of the motors. If there are more than two...then I'm the wrong person. But...if you have two thick ones, then those will be the power If your daring, put one of the motors up on blocks, and run 12 volts through the two wires. (connect one side to the positive, the other to the negative...) use a hobby battery...doesn't even neet to be 12 volts. The motor should turn.

Also, if there are more than two wires...the chair may have a built in controller of some type. I personally would work my way down to the motors themselves...and go with my own controller. Other people would say figure out how to control the controller...really though I'm not sure that this is the problem.

Finally...post some pictures. Post pictures of the motors...the wires...any boards or such that are attached...then people may be able to give you more targeted advice.

Chief Omega

jes1510
01-26-2009, 08:24 AM
Can you also post specs and data sheets on the controller you want to use? That would be helpful.

Adrenalynn
01-26-2009, 12:33 PM
I concur - we'd need at least some kind of model information...

Generally a scooter motor controller has potentiometer input. You'd also want two motor controllers if you plan on doing differential drive.

I have a commercial golf cart motor controller here that can take PWM input (as well as potentiometer), but it's a PITA to deal with. My solution is a micro servo on a potentiometer to drive it.

ScuD
01-26-2009, 01:25 PM
My solution is a micro servo on a potentiometer to drive it.
I'd give you +rep for the major KISS principle, but you're already towering over everyone here :p

Adrenalynn
01-26-2009, 03:00 PM
Actually - several are pretty close now. I can't +Rep anyone anymore without them automagically going up a box. It's 100 rep-power/box, and I'm at like 99 rep-power now.

That's the curse, I can't +Rep people without raising them over myself. ;)

But, yeah, it does work. Ooops gave me a Curtis commercial-grade motor controller and gearbox for me to reverse engineer - it used push buttons for direction and other controls, and a pot for speed control. The simplest most inexpensive solution I came up with was using opto-couplers to replace the pushbuttons (36-48v, so just using digital outs wouldn't work) and a servo to control the pot. $5 solution. ;)

No0bert
01-27-2009, 05:33 AM
You may want to add the specs on the two motors. I currently use vantec dual motor (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/VT-RDFR21.html) controllers on my rovers. Seam OK at 12 volts and decent amounts of amps. Those are the two parts you have to worry about. Volts and Amps (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/2666-DC-Motor-Controllers.aspx).


Thats incredibly expensive, the reason I am asking about the scooter motor controller is because its a cheaper solution, but I guess thats a no no, I havent received the motors yet but the ebay page said this:

PRIDE POWER WHEELCHAIR MOTORS & TRANS, ROBOT BATTLEBOT



http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifItem Specifics - Item Condition
Condition: Used


http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif " THIS IS A NO RESERVE AUCTION FOR A MATCHED PAIR OF CLEAN AND WORKING...HEAVY DUTY MOTORS WITH TRANSMISSIONS AND PR1MO POWERTRAX (NO-FLAT) TIRES, SIZE 3.00-8. REMOVED FROM A PRIDE JAZZY MOBILITY POWER WHEELCHAIR "

Clean and tested to be working nicely with no physical damage. Looks to have been very well cared for.

These units were removed from a working power chair that had other issues and we bring them to you with no reserve. Simply be the high bidder to be the buyer.

Fixed shipping is based on delivery to any of the lower continental 48 states.
We do not ship outside the USA.
Shipping insurance is available upon request.
Buyer pays actual insurance cost added to invoice.
These units are very heavy and shipped either UPS or USPS.

We usually ship within 3 to 7 working days from item payment.
Please ask if it's important that we ship sooner. Often times we can accommodate.
Local pick up is never a problem and there is never a service charge for this, just let us know.

Questions welcome


http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/28/d1/99c1_1.JPG

http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/28/d1/9dab_1.JPG

http://i14.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/28/d1/a03e_1.JPG

http://i18.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/28/d1/9be6_1.JPG


Thats all that was provided, and a search of the customer part number, part number, and model number yielded inconclusive results, can anyone help me find a datasheet of some sort for these guys?

Adrenalynn
01-27-2009, 06:34 AM
>> but I guess thats a no no

Hardly! As I noted - I've reverse-engineered a Curtis golf-cart motor controller for Ooops' project.

I don't see any photos or text information on your controller. I'm more concerned with it. A motor's a motor. It draws some number of amps under no load, under load, and at stall. If the motor controller is already rated to handle those motors, that's great. Let's figure out what it is so we can figure out how to drive it.

[edit] I see half a dozen motor controllers available for that cart. I don't see in the auction that it comes with one. Where are you getting it? Link? Any more info?

darkback2
01-27-2009, 09:58 AM
Thats incredibly expensive, the reason I am asking about the scooter motor controller is because its a cheaper solution, but I guess thats a no no, I havent received the motors yet but the ebay page said this:



If you didn't notice I included two links. The first was to the vantac dual speed controller. One reason why I like them is because they control two motors from one box, and the added bonus is they do the mixing and steering for you. The second link was to the Electronic speed controllers page on the trossen site. There are a lot of cheaper options there (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/4267-BaneBots-Motor-Controller-45A-peak-.aspx).

As for the scooter motor controller, that might be a cheaper option...if you get where you want to from there than fine, but you still need to post info on it so people can help you. I'm not sure that you are going to get a controller with the motors listed. The post doesn't say anything about a controller, and I don't see one in the pictures.

Hope this helps.

DB

No0bert
01-27-2009, 10:11 AM
I got it from ebay, from a seller who had 100%, I tried contacting him regarding a data/spec sheet but he was clueless, so I received it today and took some pictures:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2501.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2502.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2503.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2504.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2505.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2506.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/HPIM2507.jpg

Each motor came with four wires, two red, two black, one pair of thicker ones and one thinner, I took a picture of both the origin of said wires, as well as the strange connector, they fit into each other? Anyone know what kind of connector these babies are?

No0bert
01-27-2009, 10:19 AM
>>

[edit] I see half a dozen motor controllers available for that cart. I don't see in the auction that it comes with one. Where are you getting it? Link? Any more info?

Ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=160308422021

EDIT: @ Darkback, I already know it wont come with a controller, nor will I find one dedicated for these motors.

I found this schematic for a Motor Driver capable of handling the amount of AMPS s, depending on the relays. It only has one PWM chip, and can drive two motors and operating voltage is extremely high (30ish?)


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I7OEOSXH

its a .rar file with a schematic and placements

Is it good for my task? (Sending high/low commands from MCU PWM output?)

darkback2
01-27-2009, 10:28 AM
I would worry most about the thicker wires. One thing you can do is get a volt meter, and hook it up to the two thicker wires. If you can turn the wheels you may see some voltage from them. Those would be the wires for powering the motors. I have seen power window motors with 4 wires. two are meant for connecting to a ceramic speed controller for slower operation.

DB

Adrenalynn
01-27-2009, 04:12 PM
I'm cornfused. You were asking about a Jazzy scooter motor controller. Do you have one of those beasts?

I've gotten some odd connectors on scooter and cart motors too. I search for hours, get annoyed, and then end-up on the floor of the lab after having met the business end of a pair of linesmans pliers. ;)

It's just wire, strip it, tin it, have fun. ;)

I saw all those picture links and thought "aha! Now I can help" - the weren't anything but the connector. [pout] If you're really set on it, start crawling around digikey with the search term "molex" - maybe you'll get lucky.

No0bert
01-27-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm cornfused. You were asking about a Jazzy scooter motor controller. Do you have one of those beasts?

I've gotten some odd connectors on scooter and cart motors too. I search for hours, get annoyed, and then end-up on the floor of the lab after having met the business end of a pair of linesmans pliers. ;)

It's just wire, strip it, tin it, have fun. ;)

I saw all those picture links and thought "aha! Now I can help" - the weren't anything but the connector. [pout] If you're really set on it, start crawling around digikey with the search term "molex" - maybe you'll get lucky.

Alright, thanks!

robologist
01-28-2009, 01:40 PM
Each motor came with four wires, two red, two black, one pair of thicker ones and one thinner, I took a picture of both the origin of said wires, as well as the strange connector, they fit into each other? Anyone know what kind of connector these babies are?

I would suggest that the thinner pair go to the brake of these units, that needs to be activated to allow the motors to turn. The thicker pair should be to the motor itself. I believe that both the brake and motor will operate of 24 volts, but it might be best to try at 12 volts first. Brake should release by applying positive to red, negative to ground as expected. Or the brake may be simply mechanically removed.

robologist
01-28-2009, 01:45 PM
I found this schematic for a Motor Driver capable of handling the amount of AMPS s, depending on the relays. It only has one PWM chip, and can drive two motors and operating voltage is extremely high (30ish?)


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I7OEOSXH

its a .rar file with a schematic and placements

Is it good for my task? (Sending high/low commands from MCU PWM output?)

Actually, that controller schematic only controls one motor, not 2. Here is the complete MC7 (http://www.diverseelectronicservices.com/html/mc7.html) for sale.

SteamBoat
01-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Rebuilt, those blasted things are ~$600 EACH !
http://www.electricwheelchairparts.com/pridemotorsandgearboxes.htm
http://www.wheelchairmotor.com/catalog/mainPage21.html

BTW: I'm pretty sure the motors are 24v

And I found this while looking around:
48 Volt 1200W Universal Speed & Voltage Controller (http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48vo12unscco.html) for $59.99
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48vo12unscco.html

And some other universal controllers:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/otco.html

No0bert
01-29-2009, 04:32 AM
Rebuilt, those blasted things are ~$600 EACH !

And I found this while looking around:
48 Volt 1200W Universal Speed & Voltage Controller (http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48vo12unscco.html) for $59.99
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48vo12unscco.html

And some other universal controllers:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/otco.html

Great find, but I am not sure how to use them, and I have yet to find any documentation on how to implement them with serial packets from the pwm output of an MCU?

Adrenalynn
01-29-2009, 04:43 AM
They're potentiometer driven, or at least the ones in the last link are.

No0bert
01-29-2009, 05:22 AM
They're potentiometer driven, or at least the ones in the last link are.

So I will have to crack it open and replace the pot with a series of transistors to do it digitally? Is it that easy?

Adrenalynn
01-29-2009, 11:54 AM
No. The pot is not included. The pot is the handle bar twist throttle on the scooter.

Did you see the other thread where we were discussing it, and I was talking about potentiometer affixed to a servo?

SteamBoat
01-29-2009, 12:55 PM
Did you notice that one of the outputs is for a break light? That kills me.
And I wonder how the breaks work. Is it sensitive enough that you can vary the breaking depending on voltage or are you limited to binary states of off/on? That would matter for diagnal travel on a slope.

MArk B.
What? No horn?

Adrenalynn
01-29-2009, 01:30 PM
Don't laugh too hard - the Curtis motor controller I'm working with has variable braking and brake lights AND a horn. Oh - and a flashing light controller too. And a run-out switch. And a key-lock switch. And an emergency stop switch. Among others.

No0bert
01-31-2009, 05:58 PM
I should probably make a new thread for this, but I don't think I should but here it goes:

I am worried about mounting the Motors, are they to be mounted vertically? For example:

Three pieces of wood in a U formation and the motors mounted on each side. So it can't be mounted underneath. Also can one screw support this? Here is a picture:

http://that.homepage.dk/Img/Mounting.png


http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/_Corrupt_/SDC10388.jpg

If this is my best bet I know L Brackets are necessary, but what else?