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vertex
02-28-2009, 09:30 PM
Could a third class of battle be implemented utilizing some sort of...non-projectile... perhaps also this class would remove the cam/telepresence requirement and have other simplified rules? I think it would serve as a lower level entry class and help things along for the mech side of things by increasing the population of folks who could compete.

http://www.robospot.jp/cgi-bin/diarypro/diary.cgi?no=141

http://www.air-commander.com/
http://www.rc-cam.com/combat.htm

video:
http://www.engadget.com/tag/kondo/

Adrenalynn
03-01-2009, 01:57 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Certainly not for this year. Time's waaaay toooo close.

I think the sky's the limit, but I think first-person (ie. camera/telepresence) is the whole point to the event.

Isn't there a laser-tag-bots event out there? If not, that sounds like something someone should start!

DresnerRobotics
03-01-2009, 02:45 PM
It's something I might entertain in the future, but it would be a whole different target/scoring system. We've already developed one based on projectiles, so for the time being we'll stick with that. We'd also need a fog machine to make them visible.

And personally, I find lasers kind of boring. When it comes down to it I think shooting something physical has more appeal than shining lights at eachother. I also don't see them being any more cost efficient than the current airsoft standard.

jes1510
03-01-2009, 05:59 PM
It's something I might entertain in the future, but it would be a whole different target/scoring system. We've already developed one based on projectiles, so for the time being we'll stick with that. We'd also need a fog machine to make them visible.

And personally, I find lasers kind of boring. When it comes down to it I think shooting something physical has more appeal than shining lights at eachother. I also don't see them being any more cost efficient than the current airsoft standard.


Yeah, the big cost is in the robot itself. The weapons system is a very small percentage of the overall cost so I don't think this would make anything more accessible.

vertex
03-01-2009, 07:18 PM
Thanks for the welcome and feedback... I'm a noob hoping to purchase a biped soon...

I understand it's too far along to change.

But the year after...

Well then how about this-- a velcro strap connected air-soft/or nerf weapon system that includes it's own rc tranceiver and receiver that can be easily controlled via a step pedal clicker like a sewing machine. Competitors could rent or purchase them and strap them on just about any robot and play a game that is judged like paintball getting rid of the targeting system and web cam (though both are very cool). Again it's just in the spirit of something entry level below the current levels...

Okay, I know-- ideas are the easy part... Reducing the barrier of entry could help folks get involved, though.

lnxfergy
03-01-2009, 07:28 PM
I think the issue here is simple though: the hardest part of this whole competition is building a walking bot. The wifi camera, gun system, and control stuff could be done for <$250, with not too much work. However, the lowest end biped or quad systems you could hope to use are probably on the order of the Bioloid or Robonova systems. That means your biped is gonna be $800-1000, and is going to require some signifigant work to walk in a way that is stable enough to be competition worthy.

In the end, if you have the time to get the biped up and running, the rest is cake.

-Fergs

No0bert
03-01-2009, 07:47 PM
Money money money

But really... these laser tag faciilites shell out tens of thousands of dollars into making these laser systems... I dont think they could be (financial wise) available to a couple of of hobbyist robot makers.

Adrenalynn
03-01-2009, 09:04 PM
Laser + Sensor = maybe $10...

That said - Not something I'd be interested in...

vertex
03-02-2009, 12:24 PM
>the hardest part of this whole competition is building a walking bot.

What about ready to use mechs? Are they feasible for a new class?
There would be a big difference in having a MechRC ($600) or even an I-Sobot ($99 now) owner who can get his mech the day of the event (possibly) and velcro on a ready-to-go weapon for a quick battle in the city battle arena vs webcam/MechDar/w/ Custom Target hardware attachments/target plates and associated electronics for a custom-built Mech (based on 100s of hours of work) . I think the latter is much cooler but the former feasible for entry level fun.

It would benefit the other two classes by getting folks interested-- reducing barrier to entry.

Adrenalynn
03-02-2009, 12:30 PM
There's plenty of space in robotics for all kinds of things. If you're really passionate about it: do the market research, set up the event, do the marketing, get the investment, spend the money, and get the event going.

vertex
03-02-2009, 01:42 PM
You should start a new thread for that, Adren. titled "start your own event in 6 very hard steps."

I'm really trying to stick to feedback about the current events planned (next year-- not this one) and promoting those.

The issue of reducing barriers to entry should probably be a new thread as well, I admit.

Nonetheless, at least in the case of the i-sobot (after some research) only two (without mods) can operate at the same time. I would imagine similar limitations hamper the mechRC? I can't find info on the number of mechRC units that can operate at the same time...

I suppose the question is are these entry level bipeds feasible for such an entry level class, because if they're not, they would be less of an argument for a new entry level class...

Adrenalynn
03-02-2009, 01:56 PM
I think the point was that if Tyberius says "not interested in laser tag" it means "maybe if people want to play laser tag they need to start a new event"...

I was just trying to be a little less blunt than I frequently am. ;)

vertex
03-02-2009, 02:02 PM
I normally don't quote myself-- from this thread:

"Well then how about this-- a velcro strap connected air-soft/or nerf weapon system that includes it's own rc tranceiver and receiver that can be easily controlled via a step pedal.."

"velcro on a ready-to-go weapon for a quick battle "


Look, I'm pretty easy going and reasonable.

Adrenalynn
03-02-2009, 02:11 PM
How much are you willing to pay for said device? If there's enough interest, I'm willing to build it and sell it.

vertex
03-02-2009, 04:36 PM
I don't know but a kit would be cool, eh. I'm a noob, so you know... you know better.

DresnerRobotics
03-02-2009, 04:54 PM
I hate to sound like an elitist... but I think one of the greatest parts of this competition is the engineering challenge. Coming up with a prebuilt kit where one can just velcro stuff onto an existing bot would take away from the challenge I feel. I'm all for bringing more people into the competition, and I realize the bar considerably higher than most competitions, but this is just as much an engineering competition as it is a combat competition.

This forum provides plenty of resources to get started, and I think that is enough for now.

vertex
03-02-2009, 08:29 PM
You quoted Adenalynn before in another thread and now I will...

As Adrenalynn said, "Can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. ie. You don't have to participate in the [newly proposed "easy]-core class" (Which you would run.) Adrenalynn has already asked me to do it, but I'm busy.) I modified the part in brackets-- see flamethrower thread.


How does a kitchen get too hot. I mean really you should check your oven out if the kitchen's too hot...or the ventilation. I can understand hot, but not too hot, and what if you're the only cook in the kitchen. Who is going to cook!?! I would tell lots of cooks to get out of a hot kitchen, but not the last one. I would be like, hey do you need some ice water? If you could just finish cooking today I'll see what's up with the oven tomorrow.

I digress!

First of all relax you don't "sound like an elitist." I have a brother who sounds like an elitist. Since a skateboard accident in 1994, he thinks he is Thurston Howell, III from Giligan's island. He wore an ascot to school in fifth grade and would drink grape juice with an olive through a toothpick in a plastic cocktail cup at school lunch. He would call his teacher's "Lovey."

I knew someone else who sounded like an elitist but that's only because they could make an awesome sound like a Lambo-- very expensive car.

Frankly, and to be candid and truthful, at this point, I'm offended by the idea of another "dumbed down" competition for six pack ready-to-go robotic owners with their WowWeeness (lots of cool products for kids and enthusiasts), i-cybie (affordable Aibo wannabes), and their i-SOSOBOTS (that are on sale now for a really good price), and their interactive R2-D2's (that are awesome). It's not because it's a bad idea but because it's a bad noob's idea and I think I can safely say after a few hours participating on this site I'm no no-longer a noob. Noob ideas disgust me-- even when one of those ideas was mine...when I was a noob.

I digress!

I've got a robot to build! But some questions. First, what exactly is a servo? And how do I make a robot that isn't so smart that it embezzles money from my bank account or replaces me at my job?

lnxfergy
03-02-2009, 08:30 PM
This forum provides plenty of resources to get started, and I think that is enough for now.

Also, while it won't be out in time for this year, all of my mech design is open sourced. That means open sourced bioloid kit control (avr board w/xbee, with open-source firmware, built on a re-usable library of device drivers) and an open source GUI (python/pygame based, with wifi camera viewer, and joystick control). It probably won't be a "turn-key" solution, but jeez, it ought to be a pretty high starting level.

A rough version of the camera viewer and joystick control/AVR interface is already available on my subversion server (very rough still....).

-Fergs

DresnerRobotics
03-03-2009, 12:35 AM
You quoted Adenalynn before in another thread and now I will...

As Adrenalynn said, "Can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. ie. You don't have to participate in the [newly proposed "easy]-core class" (Which you would run.) Adrenalynn has already asked me to do it, but I'm busy.) I modified the part in brackets-- see flamethrower thread.


How does a kitchen get too hot. I mean really you should check your oven out if the kitchen's too hot...or the ventilation. I can understand hot, but not too hot, and what if you're the only cook in the kitchen. Who is going to cook!?! I would tell lots of cooks to get out of a hot kitchen, but not the last one. I would be like, hey do you need some ice water? If you could just finish cooking today I'll see what's up with the oven tomorrow.

I digress!

First of all relax you don't "sound like an elitist." I have a brother who sounds like an elitist. Since a skateboard accident in 1994, he thinks he is Thurston Howell, III from Giligan's island. He wore an ascot to school in fifth grade and would drink grape juice with an olive through a toothpick in a plastic cocktail cup at school lunch. He would call his teacher's "Lovey."

I knew someone else who sounded like an elitist but that's only because they could make an awesome sound like a Lambo-- very expensive car.

Frankly, and to be candid and truthful, at this point, I'm offended by the idea of another "dumbed down" competition for six pack ready-to-go robotic owners with their WowWeeness (lots of cool products for kids and enthusiasts), i-cybie (affordable Aibo wannabes), and their i-SOSOBOTS (that are on sale now for a really good price), and their interactive R2-D2's (that are awesome). It's not because it's a bad idea but because it's a bad noob's idea and I think I can safely say after a few hours participating on this site I'm no no-longer a noob. Noob ideas disgust me-- even when one of those ideas was mine...when I was a noob.

I digress!

I've got a robot to build! But some questions. First, what exactly is a servo? And how do I make a robot that isn't so smart that it embezzles money from my bank account or replaces me at my job?

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, I think your sense of humor is a level above mine at this particular time of night.

Promagic
03-03-2009, 06:02 PM
1: What exactly is a servo?
2:And how do I make a robot that isn't so smart that it embezzles money from my bank account or replaces me at my job?
1: LOL! :tongue:
Seriously a servo is a motor in a plastic brick with a built-in pentameter that tells whatever you have the servo plugged into how much it has turned. The more expensive it is, the harder it can push/pull.

2: Carefully...

Adrenalynn
03-03-2009, 06:20 PM
built-in pentameter

Shall I call thee potentiometer?
'Tis but thy name that is my confusion;
For electronic parts I know not why?
Current flows in and Current flows out thee:
ZAP OUCH one should not hold thee to thy tongue!

[Be fun to see how many get that one...]

robologist
03-04-2009, 02:33 PM
Feeling a bit iambic today, Lynn?

Adrenalynn
03-04-2009, 03:06 PM
A wee bit. Thanks for noticin'. I was startin' to think that was a little too obscure a response. ;)

Either that, or no one else found me as amusing as I did. [Par for the course]

Promagic
03-04-2009, 11:14 PM
Sorry I just didn't know what to say, your post was perfect and I was speechless.
I played on my keyboard trying to reply, however I am no poet of words so I went to bed :veryhappy: