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webgeek
11-30-2009, 12:08 AM
I know I won't have an autonomous mech working for the competition but I do think I could have some software to help with targeting. Even if it's just a targeting assist for me while driving it would be a step in the right direction. Either way, I think it's critical the targets are all a standard color that won't appear in the mechs or the environment itself.

This idea has been discussed before but I felt it was worth it's own topic as doing any auto-targeting is vastly harder without a color to key off of. With a color, it's quite a bit easier even in poor lighting to at least identify a target. Since we have to purchase the panels already (speaking of which, how do we do that), I think it might make sense to just have them come in the required color and be done with it. This way, if someone wants to try auto-targeting they will have at least something going in their favor.

Anyways, this is just my opinion - others will vary. I feel that you need to prepare for the results you want. In this case, it seems fully autonomous mechs are what people want and at least a tiny part of the preparation is targets computers can see. Thanks!

-Mike

Adrenalynn
11-30-2009, 12:15 AM
You can bring any color post-it note you want. As you mentioned - it's been done to death.

>> In this case, it seems fully autonomous mechs are what people want

I want to be a super-model, but as many times as I demand Sports Illustrated change their requirements to suit my whim - the phone still aint ringin'.

lnxfergy
11-30-2009, 12:18 AM
The official ruling is that you can bring any color 3x3" paper or whatnot (vibrant sticky notes are probably the item of choice). The sticky notes or whatnot will be applied before the match (a strip of clear tape across the top and bottom should be sufficient). I'd suggest having several colors that you've tested and trained for, and also having plenty of your color squares in case they get banged up (as they probably will when you're shooting them.

There is no way we can assure that a particular color will not appear on a mech, or in the environment (there will be a street-level window where kids wearing all colors of shirts are likely to congregate to watch the awesomeness).

-Fergs

P.S. - this will all be incorporated into the final ruleset -- which we'll probably get up over winter break.
P.P.S. - details on purchasing target plates will be up shortly.
P.P.P.S. - Adrenalynn beat me to the punch...

Adrenalynn
11-30-2009, 12:26 AM
Real computers can lock-up pattern recognition and do motion prediction and work in zero-light levels.

That's why the "bring your own target color/pattern/post-it" is so important. There's no loser that way. Those who are limited can get the colors they need, and those that have the processing power and programming experience can leverage it to get far more... current generation... targeting.

webgeek
11-30-2009, 01:04 AM
Thanks for the quick answers. I've read the rules several times and I'm ashamed to say that I missed the color bits. Seems easy enough - I'll just plan on something I can use to identify the plates :)

As for using pattern recognition - it seems unlikely that the ridiculously poor cameras and unknown lighting conditions we are using would be very effective at tracking a rectangular plate in with all the rectangular doors and windows on the buildings plus the unknown physical shape of the other bots. I opted for color as the easiest and most approachable solution given all the other variables. Tracking moving color blobs is far easier than tracking actual shapes in my (albeit limited) experiences with computer vision.

Most of my work with vision in the past has been tracking moving objects against a static background (which worked quite well in the end), never tried to actually identify em as a given shape - only estimated the size and velocity. Anyways, thanks for the input!

Mike

Adrenalynn
11-30-2009, 01:08 AM
Well, don't use ridiculously poor cameras. I'm not. ;)

Adrenalynn
11-30-2009, 01:43 AM
Also of note: Trying to track a rectangular plate would be a ridiculously poor idea.

Pattern recognition excels at recognizing patterns, not blobs like rectangular plates.

xdream
12-02-2009, 10:27 AM
Adrenalynn- do you have a write up of the bot you are entering or will it be a surprise?

Adrenalynn
12-02-2009, 10:38 AM
There's been various posts in various threads regarding my bots. Good enough.

xdream
12-02-2009, 11:10 AM
I found your 'junk bot' status on the roll call...just wondering if there was a dedicated thread I missed somewhere.