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DresnerRobotics
11-30-2010, 04:20 PM
So you guys can thank elaughlin (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/member.php?u=4237) for finding this one...

HH9800M-S Mini Video Encoder (http://www.histream.cn/products/IPCamera_MegaPixels_IPHH9800Mini_spec.shtml)

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/4/9/2/dscn0245.jpg

I searched high and low to find a compact, small wifi encoder for use in Mech Warfare and was unable to find anything, but this looks to be it. I just got the sample in today so haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but given the tiny size of it (60x60mm), it appears to have huge potential for Mech Warfare usage.

So what does this mean to you guys? Why is it important? Rather than being stuck with hacking apart Wifi IP Cameras, this enables us to use any standard analog camera (that means tiny pinhole ones, wide-angle lens ones, etc) and connect them to this board separately. This opens up mounting options considerably, because your wifi board and camera can be in two different places, and the camera can be as small as a 0.5" cube (I've actually seen smaller). Wifi encoders also tend to have higher performance than low end Wifi Cameras; they have a dedicated Arm processor and usually 32-64 megs of ram running a linux based video server. This means higher framerates, lower latency, and higher resolution.

Keep in mind, these are generally a more expensive route to go. The unit above retails for around $200 and a decent camera to add to it will run $25-80. So, it's about double the price of a Trendnet IP-110, but should provide considerably more performance and flexibility in mounting.

I'll post video and my review once I get it setup.

DresnerRobotics
11-30-2010, 04:28 PM
In comparison, here was the old one I used in Hagetaka that was the smallest I could find:

http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/gallery/files/1/4/9/2/p1010014_859974.jpg

This measured about 9x5"

master_of_robots
12-01-2010, 10:02 AM
Whoa, this looks really REALLY sweet. I took a look at the specs, and I only found an "RTSP" protocol for the video stream. I was hoping to see MPEG4/MJPEG streaming. I'd love to hear back on how well it works and what codec options are supported.

jotheberlock
12-02-2010, 08:58 AM
RTSP is a protocol for negotiating start/stop of media playback rather than a video compression protocol; I would imagine the actual video stream is in fact MPEG or something of the sort. I'd guess you can point VLC at it with the appropriate incantation and get a video feed.

master_of_robots
12-02-2010, 12:15 PM
RTSP is a protocol for negotiating start/stop of media playback rather than a video compression protocol; I would imagine the actual video stream is in fact MPEG or something of the sort. I'd guess you can point VLC at it with the appropriate incantation and get a video feed.

I figured as much. You'd think they'd go into more detail on the codecs since they were very detailed with every other specification. I'd also assume some flavor of mpeg but I guess we'll have to wait on the writeup.

elaughlin
12-19-2010, 08:51 PM
I can't wait to figure out how to use this thing. I also need to find a good wide angle lens to use. It fit perfectly inside Draco_08.

cire
12-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Good find. It is tiny! Lets hope it works well.

Stobs
12-20-2010, 03:09 PM
I haven't found this listed for sale in the Trossen store, nor on the web in general; does TR intend to carry it?

Paul

webgeek
12-28-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm looking at this seriously for a totally different application - any word on the latency it introduces? Thanks!

-Mike

DresnerRobotics
12-28-2010, 12:35 PM
I've been so slammed with the holidays I haven't had a chance to test this yet.

Stobs
12-30-2010, 04:56 PM
uhm, but what about carrying it? :sad:

lnxfergy
12-30-2010, 04:59 PM
uhm, but what about carrying it? :sad:

I would *hope* anyone in charge of purchasing would *test* it before adding an item to the lineup. You won't get an answer to "will you be carrying it" until the question "how well does it work" has been answered.

-Fergs

Stobs
12-30-2010, 05:14 PM
Of course. But all because one's testing a product doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be carried. Simple question, really guys.

Paul

DresnerRobotics
12-30-2010, 06:25 PM
I posted about this with the intention of testing it out for Mech Warfare and making it available for anyone if it tests out well. This company won't sell to individuals, so it's pretty much on our plate to bring it to market here if it gets the 'ok'.

So to answer your question, yes, we will be carrying it if it ends up performing well.

Also, I believe Fergs was just trying to be helpful there.

Stobs
01-03-2011, 02:35 PM
Thanks for the reply Ty, much appreciated.

That's all I was looking for; something like 'yeah, if it tests out ok' would've all that had been needed - and I wouldn't had to have considered taking my business elsewhere.

Ferg's post seemed pretty condescending to me, but I am still getting over the flu and had a high fever of 103.9F the day before posting my last above, so it may have just been me.

Thanks again.

Paul

sthmck
02-01-2011, 09:00 AM
I was just wondering if there was any progress with testing this encoder. I know I cant just get one but I was wondering if you needed someone to help out with testing. There a few guys in my club at school who are interested in helping out. My university will buy a few if by an off chance it is possible for us to get one or two through trossen.

rebel
02-02-2011, 04:42 PM
Not to bug anyone but how is the testing going for the encoder. And if you stock it, tyb, I will problely buy it, if I can get and set up before robogames.

mannyr7
02-02-2011, 05:01 PM
Not to bug anyone but how is the testing going for the encoder. And if you stock it, tyb, I will problely buy it, if I can get and set up before robogames.

Oh yes, I'm buggin' You could count me in for definitely one, maybe two. :p

DresnerRobotics
02-02-2011, 05:42 PM
I pulled it out and got it wired up last night, should have results by tomorrow. (I'm currently snowed in)

mannyr7
02-02-2011, 06:50 PM
Thanks for this! And we're crying in Arizona about how cold it is here!

sthmck
02-02-2011, 09:29 PM
Thanks for this! And we're crying in Arizona about how cold it is here!

oh no what is it 70?

DresnerRobotics
02-02-2011, 09:41 PM
oh no what is it 70?

85, PARTLY cloudy.

rebel
02-03-2011, 08:22 AM
OMG -38 last weekend here!!

DresnerRobotics
02-04-2011, 12:47 AM
Okay, so good and bad news.

The good news is this thing is rock solid. The latency is minimal (I was testing on a WiFi router that's buried in the warehouse in back, through no less than 2 solid walls) and the picture quality is pretty solid as well. It's definitely better than a Trendnet, and seems to keep a much more consistent framerate. There was one slowdown in the video but I think that was recording related, as I didn't see any slowdown when just doing a straight feed. I was running it at 320x240 resolution stretched fullscreen, and then compressed and recorded locally on the fly.

Keep in mind this video is compressed, the actual feed quality is higher (and I have terrible lighting conditions).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa0iiLJ47Vk

Bad news? So far as I can tell, it's ActiveX only. Which means you're basically stuck with a .NET GUI (or worse, IE). I'll email the company and see if there is any alternate firmware available.

coreyfro
02-09-2011, 09:38 PM
It says:
RTSP Protocols Support, you can view live video by VLC player
That's promising.

If this thing works with RTSP, put me down for one. I wanna to POV RC over IP

coreyfro
02-18-2011, 01:35 PM
Any news on this? I might just try to roll my own, but if this is a sure thing, I will wait.

DresnerRobotics
02-18-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm waiting to hear back on the Linux SDK availability, they're getting caught up from Chinese new years so the response time is a bit delayed. They did provide info on pulling the RTSP feed though, not sure what languages could integrate that however.

Performance wise this thing is solid, even using the activeX component.

coreyfro
03-11-2011, 10:44 PM
Jury still out on this one?

parallax
04-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Any word on this yet? I hope no news is good news ;)

Stobs
06-28-2011, 10:46 AM
I'll give this a bump - any updates? Would you be carrying this even if it's only windows compatible?

Regards

coreyfro
06-29-2011, 12:29 AM
Personally, I am working on a Gumstix/PS3-Move-Eye combo. It's not perfect, the FOV is poor (70 degrees?) but the PS3 Eye can be gotten used for dirt cheap and it does upwards of 120FPS under 320x240 or 60FPS under 640x480. Also, the drivers are relatively robust under linux and are in the kernel.

byi
07-09-2011, 04:35 AM
So, is this wifi encoder a plausible option? I don't mean to ask a question already asked, but I haven't seen any recent info on this, and it looks like a better alternative to the ip cameras most people are using.

sthmck
07-09-2011, 05:38 PM
andrew should be able to provide more insight on this option but this is what I have gathered from talking to him and Elaughlin. First of all not just anyone can get this encoder. It has to be purchased by a company and I think there is a minimum quantity requirment. Also there doenst seem to be very good documentation and support for it. I know that andrew was having trouble getting his to work consistently. I have seen it in operation and it is pretty nice to have if you can handle all of the issues that they have run into. In my opinion it is probably not worth the trouble it would take to get it and make it work. I am sure the people that have them would be able to give you better input though.

elaughlin
07-09-2011, 09:04 PM
I do have one, like Sthmck says. When it works, its great, because we can hook it up to any tiny board mounted camera pretty much. The viewing terminals are not great as it needs to be done through IE or on VLC player right now. Andrew wanted to work more on getting it to be done through a .Net I think he said. That would help on just making it easier to use and view.

It is an order from China only product right now I believe, and I don't know if trossen will be carrying them yet. I guess when Andrew is back from Turkey he can answer more questions about its availability.

I do love how I can fit it in anywhere pretty much though...!

Stobs
07-09-2011, 10:07 PM
[Edit: 2011.07.28: Please note that, with Ty's post (http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/showpost.php?p=48659&postcount=37) below, I will no longer be looking into obtaining these boards.]

I'm thinking that many of us aren't concerned about the .net compatibility, since there seems to be a fair amount of *nix users here. I'm just starting to familiarize myself with a Linux distribution but, even if I maintain my robotics interests through Windows, I am not interested in .net technology at all. I can't imagine that I'd be the only one to be so inclined.

I looked into this and received back information on the 29th from a company in Shenzhen, China. With a minimum purchase quantity of 100 I mothballed the idea but, if there's enough interest, I'll look into nailing down pricing along with what it would take for me to get them imported (insurance, red tape, shipping costs, etc.) and then redistributed. "Our" purchase price would be all costs (except my time) divided by 100 - which should still come out below retail, but there's some definite risks. The one that's foremost in my mind is that if you get a bad board, it's probably still going to be yours, as the pricing wouldn't have any built in margin for me to eat a board; I would look into the possibility of returns before hand though. I'm sure there's other issues but, unless there's sufficient interest, I'm not going to look into it. BTW, I would setup a separate bank account just for this in order to collect funds, so as to ensure monies are refunded accurately in a pre-agreed upon manner should the transaction unravel.

Please IM me by 2011.10.15 if you're interested (yes, that's an arbitrary date, but no sense in prolonging this anymore than necessary).

Regards

coreyfro
07-10-2011, 02:12 AM
Here, I have a better idea. Why not describe to us, in depth, the nature of it's software stack and I'll f'n making an openembedded profile for it and we'll just build our own, opensource, software stack to match it, and then we can run it on anything or make the software stack better!

DresnerRobotics
07-28-2011, 04:49 PM
PM me if you're interested in purchasing one of these. I'll have price details shortly.

We're probably not carrying them in the store, but I think I can get a small batch out of the manufacturer for our uses.

cire
07-30-2011, 10:12 PM
PM me if you're interested in purchasing one of these. I'll have price details shortly.

We're probably not carrying them in the store, but I think I can get a small batch out of the manufacturer for our uses.
Are you going to continue using it on Giger, in the future, or look for something better?

DresnerRobotics
08-01-2011, 10:43 AM
Are you going to continue using it on Giger, in the future, or look for something better?

I'm going to move it to my upcoming quad project.

Giger is getting a full-blown PC, which makes it obsolete.

darkback2
08-01-2011, 12:00 PM
I'm going to move it to my upcoming quad project.

Giger is getting a full-blown PC, which makes it obsolete.

I'm not sure that is true. I used a full PC on both squidword and Charlie and had tons of video issues. Course that was several years ago before we knew about the hockey bots nocking out wifi and bluetooth...and I'm not really sure how the Fit compares to the wiibrain or the sony vaio UMPC in terms of wifi antenna...Guess it is just something to be weary of.

DB

DresnerRobotics
08-01-2011, 01:26 PM
You were running a pretty crappy PC with the overhead of Windows XP. Not exactly the same thing here man.

I've had great results with a custom streaming app that I wrote for linux. Keep in mind that the Wifi IP encoder is nothing but a small embedded linux PC with a streaming app running.

cire
08-01-2011, 01:31 PM
I am going to have to look into streaming video via a computer through wifi rather then the encoder.