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Thread: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

  1. Question Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Hey everyone, I'm excited to say that I have decided to construct my own Phoenix based hexapod. I stumbled across Zenta's design a while back when it was still underway and thought it was one of the neatest things I had ever seen. Since then I've been toying with the idea and have not until now been willing/able to commit the resources and necessary time to the project. But I'm finally giving in.

    I just had a few questions about several of the required parts and was hoping that some of you that have experience with the design would be able to comment. My parts list stands as:

    1x Phoenix hexapod body (Lynxmotion)
    2x 4200mAh 6V batteries
    1x Bot Board II (Lynxmotion)
    1x BASIC Atom Pro Processor
    6x HS-475HB Servos
    12x HS-645MG Servos
    + All required brackets

    Now come the questions. How about HS-805BB servos? They are larger, but does anyone know if they could be made to work and where to find brackets that would still work with the Phoenix body? I would love to upgrade the max load capacity - who knows what might find its way onto this thing. Initially I will just be using a wired serial connection to get the bot working, but down the road I would be interested in adding wireless capabilities - does anyone have any experience or suggestions? I've used ZigBee devices before, but not on anything like this.

    Thanks in advance for all the help!
    - Peter H.

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    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Why the HS805BB? You can go all-out and use something like the Hobbico CS-170 or the HS5955TG (if you can find those cheap and at the same price as the CS-170s).

    Hell, if money is not an issue, go all-out and do HSR5990TGs all around! It can handle up to 7.2V so you can even do a 6-cell for it!

    One word of advice, I had a hell of a time trying to cram all the batteries and circuits into the Phoenix, as the chassis is very limited in space. Check out my pics hosted on this site if you want to get an idea what I did to cram all that stuff in. I don't know what kind of "4200mAH" 6V batteries you are using (sub-C based, AA-cell based, etc.), but I know for a fact that you cannot cram in sub-C cells into chassis cavity. You can barely fit an AA-cell pack. I was even thinking of doing a AAA-cell pack in the future to get it to be slightly smaller to fit into the cavity better. But for now, my hump-pack 5 AA-Cell scheme seems to work good.

    At 4200mAH, I'm assuming these are 5 sub-C cells?
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  3. Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Hey, thanks for the quick reply. I was checking that model servo out just because it was only a few dollars more than the HS-645 but gave 3x the torque. I'll defiantly be sure to check out those servos you mentioned, however I'd prefer to keep my voltages to 6V. As for the battery type I was looking at: It can be found here.

    Thanks for the help,
    - Peter H.

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    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    yeah, the 805's probably aren't a good route to go. In addition to everything Tom had already mentioned, the SES bracket system (lynxmotion servo brackets) don't fit to the 805's, so you'll have to build your own custom bracket system for them. Unless of course there are other brackets you had in mind. I'm curious though... Have you or anyone seen any bracket system for these larger servos before?
    Last edited by Alex; 06-01-2008 at 10:33 PM.

    �In the long history of humankind (and animal kind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed�
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    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    yeah, the 805's probably aren't a good route to go. In addition to everything Tom had already mentioned, the SES bracket system don't fit to the 805's, so you'll have to build your own custom bracket system for them. Has anyone seen any bracket system for these larger servos before?
    Lynxmotion is starting to come out with new brackets for the larger servos now. They already have the short "C" bracket (ASB-202), long "C" bracket (ASB-203) and the MultiPurpose bracket (ASB-201) available. All of them are available in black and brushed. I've already created 3D models for the ASB-201 and ASB-202. Now I need to do the ASB-203.

    8-Dale
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    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    awesome! I'd like to see more robots built out of these servos. They're nice and beefy, plus with their enormous size, we're looking at MUCH larger robots

    �In the long history of humankind (and animal kind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed�
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  7. #7

    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    awesome! I'd like to see more robots built out of these servos. They're nice and beefy, plus with their enormous size, we're looking at MUCH larger robots
    One fellow over on the Lynxmotion forums built a hexapod using larger servos, but he fabricated his own brackets.

    8-Dale
    I can handle complexity. It's the simple things that confound me.
    Do everything in moderation, ESPECIALLY, moderation..
    Sometimes the only way to win, is not to play.. -- Stephen Falken

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    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverVenom View Post
    Hey, thanks for the quick reply. I was checking that model servo out just because it was only a few dollars more than the HS-645 but gave 3x the torque. I'll defiantly be sure to check out those servos you mentioned, however I'd prefer to keep my voltages to 6V. As for the battery type I was looking at: It can be found here.

    Thanks for the help,
    - Peter H.

    Oh my, these cells are monsters in capacity! Puts my cells (2500mAH) to shame! I bought these 2500mAH Energizer that I soldered into packs:



    AVOID THESE if you can. I seriously regret buying these cells. These cells suck really bad. They are rated at 2500mAH but I have yet to charge up to this capacity.

    My 3300mAH sub-C packs for my R/Cs report charges of 3400-3600mAH. These Energizers charge to about 2000mAH and then trips my peak charger (delta peaks shows up).

    Hmm, if those cells are what they are rated at, then I say go for those. But remember, longer run-time deserves consideration for stronger servos for a constant payload. You don't want to run a bot too long if the servos are slowly and slowly heating up to a destructive condition. Conversely, you'd want a long runtime if the servo's heat tapers off and stay well below destructive operating point.

    I believe Jim at Lynxmotion mentioned that the CH3-R can be ran continuously with the 645s. The Phoenix, being lighter, should have no problem running through the full charge of a 4200mAH pack...

    But always error on the side of precaution when running it. If the servos are hot to the touch outside, where the heat is already transferring through an insulator the plastic case, shut your bot off to be on the safe side!
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    Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverVenom View Post
    Now come the questions. How about HS-805BB servos? They are larger, but does anyone know if they could be made to work and where to find brackets that would still work with the Phoenix body? I would love to upgrade the max load capacity - who knows what might find its way onto this thing. Initially I will just be using a wired serial connection to get the bot working, but down the road I would be interested in adding wireless capabilities - does anyone have any experience or suggestions? I've used ZigBee devices before, but not on anything like this.
    Hi Peter,
    When designing Phoenix I tried to keep low weight in mind. In one of my movies I did a little payloadtest with 2,5 kg! just for fun So I think the servos are strong enough for adding 1 kg of payload extra, but where are you gonna put the extra weight? The body are very small and the leg design (hard axis load on servos) does not allow very heavy loads. A larger body and a different leg design (like the CH3R or Matt Denton's B.F hexapod v5) allow much higher payloads.

    But I can see the advantage of using stronger servos (like the 5990) on the femur joint to allow the legs to stretch out much further (pardon my bad english here).

    I'm guessing you also need the SSC32 servo controller (couldn't see it on your list)

    Good luck with your Phoenix!
    BTW: What color did you choose?

    -Zenta

  10. Re: Phoenix Pre-Build Questions

    Hey, thanks for all the replies! I found the larger brackets on the lyxmotion site, but am not sure if I should upgrade to the 805s now...The main reason I was looking at that particular model of servo was because of the huge ammount of torque they offer for such little cost. ~$40 for 805s vs ~$35 for the 645s. Nearly 3x the power for a minimal increase in cost. Other servos that were mentioned on this thread as alternatives cost much more than the 805s. If the cost is too much above the 645s, then I don't believe that the upgrade could be justified.

    @Alex: Do you know when the larger brackets that would fit the 805s will be available?

    @tom_chang79: Thanks for the info about the batteries - I was considering mounting the batteries on top of the device if they couldn't fit into the body, or perhaps getting larger standoffs?

    @Zenta: Thanks for the input! I've seen your video of your load test, and was surprised by the ammount of weight you could pile on. Still an upgrade in servos could make a load such as 1Kg easier, and less of a strain on the components. Many options to weigh... Also the "Bot Board II" includes a servo controller. As for color I was looking at black since some of my electronic components will be red - the contrast should be nice. However the red was also appealing.

    Thanks agian,
    - Peter H.

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