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Thread: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

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    So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    Hey guys, My name is Sam Agger, I'm a manager/tech of an airsoft shop here in baltimore md, I've always been interested in robots, but have never found the time (or money) to get started. I followed Sienna back here from an airsoft forum (www.maapr.com) and became engrossed. You guys do some amazing stuff here!
    I'm hopping to be able to afford a Bioloid Beginner Kit, but we'll have to wait and see.
    Anyways, I'm hoping I can help clear up some misconceptions as far as airsoft goes.
    First off, the little airsoft cannons posted in another thread are utter crap, I feel bad for the dude who bought 5 of um! The metal gearboxes are a bit better, with some upgrades they would perform admirably.
    First about bb weight, yes there are many many different weights available.
    .12g Used for nothing but the cheapest of guns. Very poorly manufactured, often out of round, seamed, or dented.
    .20g The standard round. Almost any gun will shoot the twenty. They arn't amazing, but their ok. The only types of guns that would use a 20 as a standard would be an AEP/GBB (automatic electronic pistol, or gas blow back pistol).
    .23-.25g The standard round for almost all AEGs (automatic electric gun, re. Rifles, carbines, machine guns etc). The extra weight over the twenty, while it does delay the travel speed by fractions of a second is far outweighed by the fact that the bb flys much straighter, and further. Better accuracy and brush penetration (re. shoots through small leaves instead of bouncing off.)
    .28g + (upwards of .42 sometimes) These are sniper weight bbs, designed for single shot sniper rifles that need all the range and accuracy possible.

    Next, let me explain a bit about how the gear box functions, Heres a good animated short
    http://www.mechbox.com/data/how-the-mechbox-works
    The motor spins the bevel gear, which in turns spins the spur gear, which in turn spins teh sector gear, which pulls the piston back, and then releases it. The sector gear also actuates the tappet plate, that allowes a new bb to be loaded.
    To answer the question of velocity, 350 is probably the average for most high end aegs. To lower the velocity (and increase the speed) the easiest way is to replace the spring with a lighter weight spring, or simply cut a bit off the stock spring. There are other ways as well, that that is the easiest, and most reversible.

    That all being said, the current gear box is fairly archaic and in desperate need of a revamp. I'm thinking robotics enthusiasts would be the ones to do it How about a belt driven mech box..

    Anyways, let me tell you about another little goodie we have that I'm sure you guys will find VERY interesting. The m203 bb shower grenade.
    (one of many, i wanted to take a picture of the ones we have in store, but my cell phone is dieing).
    These little babies are designed to be shot through an m203 launcher, mounted under the gun. But in actuality can be shot by pressing the little plunger on the back. They shoot between 16 and 300 bbs per shell.

    Shoulder mounted perhaps? Or have a revolver style arm..
    I debated whether I wanted to mention these, because Would love to built a mech of my own, and the element of surprise is always fun.

    As far as the scoring goes, I think you should have something closer to 100, if not more. The reason being that airsoft guns are easily capable of shooting 20+bps (balls per second), with most stock guns shooting 10-15, even upwards of 30, 40, I saw a gas gun that did 80, and I personally have a special model that shoots ~150 rps.
    My point is, at 10 hits to death, I could have your mech down in less then a second with a properly tuned gun.
    I would love to help in the planning of an even local to me (Cockeysville, Maryland), and would also be more then willing to help anyone and everyone acquire parts, and understand airsoft, and anything else I know.
    As I said earlier, I'm hoping to be able to build a mech of my own (I've got me some ideas.. ), however I have no idea where to begin, is there anyone local who'd be willing to take me under their wing and show me the ropes? Perhaps someone would be willing to start a team/pit crew/project with me for this round of tournies. I'm more then willing to do what it takes, I even have plenty of spare parts and such laying around waiting for something fun to do with them.
    I really am looking forward to joining this amazing community, and hopefully building me some robot goodness!

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    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    Thanks for the input and welcome! The biggest reason we were looking at those little airsoft tank cannons is size and weight. I realize they are not in the same class as a real airsoft weapon, but they are super light weight and fairly compact.

    Since we're looking at walking robots, our payload is very limited. Rapid firing isnt so much something I'm personally looking for, however a very compact and light weight firing mechanism is. Also would greatly prefer something that had an electric firing mechanism. I'm shooting for less than 500grams for 2 weapons total.

    Do you have any suggestions as far as a part that would fit that criteria?

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    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    The m203 shells I would guess to be ~6 ounces, making them about 170 grams, I also have the guts to an mp7 airsoft gun that, with all the extra fluff you wouldn't need, like selector switch, battery etc, but no magazine to be approximately 8 ounces, or 227 grams. It is electronic, and shoots at about 230-250 fps. That would be ideal, you could also look into AEPs, automatic electronic pistols http://www.pointact.com/prod_M81_451_16.html being one such gun, about the same fps, with a much higher ROF. I would guess (don't have one in the shop at the moment) them to weigh approximately a pound all told, so by the time you gutted them, they would be much less. You could also look into gas pistols, while a bit weightier, with some guttage you could probably get them down to spec. They are semi and full auto, most shooting around 300 fps. They have the added awesomeness factor of having blow back, meaning the slide blows back on each shot. With a bit of custom fabrication, you could make one amazing looking gauss rifle, or something similar.
    Most gear boxes weigh in under a pound as they sit, but with some customization to the box itself you could reduce that significantly. Then you would just have to fab a feed system of some sort.
    Then of course there are the shot guns.. >
    http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_i...dd871179ebcbef
    Buy it just for the shells, the gun is a trash cloan. I don't know the weight, but I'd imagine less then a real shotty shell. Each shell is filled with gas, and shoots 14 bbs at once at ~280 fps. They have a similar plunger system to the m203 granades. You would just have to fab a firing/loading mechanism.

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    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    I'm still a bti concerned about the use of BB's... Ricochets into teh crowd and suddenly I'm trapped in a "christmas story"

    How big a play field again? I could grab a few of the old steel-conflict cmobat arena wall modules for protection, but that's a lot of work for this.

  5. Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    I think we should either not allow full auto, or change the targeting system to wait one second in between "hits" before another hit is registered. Simpler to just not allow full auto. I'm not interested in having someone dump 100 BBs per second into my target, just because the mechs can't react that fast, and count that as 100 hits. Seems like whoever spends the most money on a gun wins, in that case.

    Maybe one or two rounds, per barrel, per second.

    Thoughts?
    "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." - Alan Kay, inventor of Smalltalk

  6. Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    Quote Originally Posted by dcalkins View Post
    I'm still a bti concerned about the use of BB's... Ricochets into teh crowd and suddenly I'm trapped in a "christmas story"

    How big a play field again? I could grab a few of the old steel-conflict cmobat arena wall modules for protection, but that's a lot of work for this.
    Dave, we're talking about having full six-sided protection in the arena. Floor, walls, ceiling.

    Personally, I think the front wall should be plexi, and the roof should be fine netting.
    "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." - Alan Kay, inventor of Smalltalk

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    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    >Dave, we're talking about having full six-sided protection in the arena. Floor, walls, ceiling.

    I don't think you'll need floor protection! We abuse the Ft. Mason floor a lot, and it hold up fine.

  8. #8

    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JonHylands View Post

    Maybe one or two rounds, per barrel, per second.

    Thoughts?
    I kind of assumed full auto would be ok, but you make a good point. I was thinking ammunition will be limited on these bots, and I'm not sure target hits are going to come that easily. Bots don't want to be hit. An ammo constraint could be used to force a more conservative approach.

    To your point, MechWarrior fans will remember that the mechs easily overheat when weapons are over-used, so I am definitely in favor of a burst-size limit in any case for the realism factor.

    Perhaps a five-round burst with a two second delay between bursts? I like Jon's general idea of keeping the complexity out of the target. The builder should have to deal with the extra complexity to get to use auto bursts.

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    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    Quote Originally Posted by dcalkins View Post
    I'm still a bti concerned about the use of BB's... Ricochets into teh crowd and suddenly I'm trapped in a "christmas story"

    How big a play field again? I could grab a few of the old steel-conflict cmobat arena wall modules for protection, but that's a lot of work for this.

    David, even if we're going the route of an enclosed arena, I was still planning on sticking with airsoft ammunition until we (if we get to this point) go with a full blown battle-bots type arena. The rules still state airsoft only and I would not change that unless I got it cleared with you first.

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    Re: So I'm an Airsoft store tech/manager, let me edjecate yous :)

    OK, thanks for the clarification!

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