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Thread: Speculating on a Hobby Lunar Rover

  1. #1
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    Speculating on a Hobby Lunar Rover

    A part of me...a big part of me doesn't want to jump in here...but here I go.

    While I don't think many people on this website currently have the requisite skills, money, or time to do this project, why don't we look at it as a mental exercise. What would it take to make a robot capable of meeting these requirements. While there are parts that we probably couldn't actually afford, there are other parts that we could put together. How about a light weight frame? Or machined wheels. A number of people on this site have CNC mills and can weld aluminum(at what temperature does aluminum fail?). Again I'm not saying we would actually make a moon rover...This is just a mental exercise.

    Heck...How about some CNC drawings/frame prototyping.

    Adren/Alex/Tyb...If this post is in the wrong place then by all means move it.

    Oops...I'm thinking tramp may have a new purpose in life...if people are willing.

    Elios...Find out what we are up against...Climate/temperatures/dust issues/atmosphere...all of that.

    Adren...sinse you have experience in this area...you can tell everyone where they went wrong.

    In the least, we would all learn a lot through the process.

    I was thinking..."why not just use off the shelf chips, and harden them...is that possible or would you have to use high current electronics?"

    Chef Omega

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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    Chips aren't just hardened, they have built-in recovery. When cosmic radiation pounds electronics it changes bits in weird ways, Schrodinger-weird-ways. The energy involved is extremely high and nearly impossible to harden against. So electronics are built with internal error checking and redundancy. Now, of course, you could build external redundancy - but flying the weight involved is expensive - like exponentially expensive. The other concern with doing it externally is the quantum uncertainty as distance from one set to the next increases.

    Some things are built to withstand it inherently, though. Thankfully, Compact Flash was _invented_ for the space program. It's already rated to fly internally. But then you run into the other problems - vibration and heat. Milspec rating is the minimum you'd fly. It's a bumpy ride on a rocket.

    Remember that billions of dollars are riding on it working the first time every time, no matter what. Could a handful of amatuers survive the stigma that was attached to JPL and NASA when the Mars Rover didn't work?
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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    [cut for brevity sake...

    I was thinking..."why not just use off the shelf chips, and harden them...is that possible or would you have to use high current electronics?"

    Chef Omega[/quote]

    here is a link from Nasa itself on hardening equipment- it will give you a very good idea on how NASA does it and why its soooo damm expensive....not to say you can't do it or as a group - the group can't do it but there is alot of factors you need to consider.
    example from this article -
    Link Nasa
    The verification phase of this project will consist of

    characterization of a large sample
    (> 20 chips) including
    the various mixed-signal components of the library as a
    function of temperature from -180C to 120C. It will also
    include radiation characterization (to a total dose of at least
    300 krad); life testing at the temperature extremes (-180C
    and 120C) for 1,000 hours; as well as over-temperature
    cycle testing for a total of 100 cycles.
    "
    Actual site with a copious amount of info
    http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=4294716158
    Last edited by lildreamer; 01-16-2009 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    lildreamer comes to us from a directly related forum that I've been on off-and-on longer than here. I consider his input on this topic exceptionally valuable. Thanks for the linkage, ld - that's a great resource - +Rep from me!

    ROFL! Maybe the link was bad, maybe the cache is hosed, I haven't explored completely - but from one of the links above, the PDF contains this for me:

    ReconfigurableortAnalogay_Integrated1=ircuitt- implementationafspacesysternsaperatingi

    ROFL! Man, I don't know how much of an authority they are! They have data corruption right here on earth! ROFL!
    Last edited by Adrenalynn; 01-16-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    Ooops-- I apologize Adrenalynn
    the lnk was to html page, encase some did not have a pdf reader, fixed the link to indicate the pdf file.
    Hope everyone has a good weekend....keep warm and keep safe.

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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    Thanks, LD! No big, I just found it to be really funny. I'm so busy right now that maybe it's just hysterical laughter response.
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    moooooooooon

    finding some info on wiki atm... looks really interesting...

    moooooooooooooooooooooooOOoooooooonnn rover!

    Equatorial surface gravity 1.622 m/s (0.165 4 g)

    Surface temp.
    equator
    85N[5] min mean max 100 K 220 K 390 K 70 K 130 K 230 K

    from Kelvin to Kelvin Celsius [C] = [K] − 273.15 [K] = [C] + 273.15 Fahrenheit [F] = [K] 9⁄5 − 459.67 [K] = ([F] + 459.67) 5⁄9 Rankine [R] = [K] 9⁄5 [K] = [R] 5⁄9
    Mass 7.347 7 1022 kg (0.012 3 Earths[1])

    Flattening 0.001 25 Circumference 10 921 km (equatorial) Surface area 3.793 107 km (0.074 Earths) Volume 2.195 8 1010 km (0.020 Earths)for those who dont know:

    degrees kelvin eg.130 K. is really cold... 0 k is absolute 0 you cant get colder than that. thats when the electrons freeze around the atom... brrrrr.... and your beloved creation falls apart in a mass of atoms...

    Atmosphere

    Main article: Atmosphere of the Moon
    The Moon has an atmosphere so thin as to be almost negligible, with a total atmospheric mass of less than 104 kg.[35] The effective surface pressure of this small mass is around 3 10-15 atm [36]. This pressure varies, of course, with the diurnal moon cycle. One source of its atmosphere is outgassingthe release of gases such as radon that originate by radioactive decay processes within the crust and mantle.[citation needed] Another important source is generated through the process of sputtering, which involves the bombardment of micrometeorites, solar wind ions, electrons, and sunlight.[28] Gases that are released by sputtering can either reimplant into the regolith as a result of the Moon's gravity, or can be lost to space either by solar radiation pressure or by being swept away by the solar wind magnetic field if they are ionised. The elements sodium (Na) and potassium (K) have been detected using earth-based spectroscopic methods, whereas the element radon222 (222Rn) and polonium-210 (210Po) have been inferred from data obtained from the Lunar Prospector alpha particle spectrometer.[37] Argon40 (40Ar), helium-4 (4He), oxygen (O2) and/or methane (CH4), nitrogen (N2) and/or carbon monoxide (CO), and carbon dioxide (CO2) were detected by in-situ detectors placed by the Apollo astronauts.[38]

    Surface temperature

    During the lunar day, the surface temperature averages 107C, and during the lunar night, it averages -153C.[39]


    This is legal. From wikipedia. makes sense at my end, ask questions if you need it to be "translated"
    Last edited by Adrenalynn; 01-17-2009 at 10:02 PM. Reason: merged back-to-back posts together.
    Hey Hamlet: 2b or not 2b = $FF

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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    Quote Originally Posted by elios View Post
    [clip]whereas the element radon–222 (222Rn) and polonium-210 (210Po) have been inferred from data obtained from the Lunar Prospector
    ...
    ask questions if you need it to be "translated"
    Sure - what happens when you bombard static memory with polonium?
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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    "Alleviate the dirt and dust-attraction problems caused by electrostatic charges with these proven static neutralizers. The polonium 210 element emits alpha particles (positively charged helium atoms) that collide with molecules of air, creating a supply of oxygen and nitrogen ions sufficient to neutralize both positive and negative static charges."

    polonium is a anti-static. that help?
    Hey Hamlet: 2b or not 2b = $FF

  10. #10
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    Re: Rover Money $$$$ ?

    No, I was more hoping you'd explain the effect it would have on SRAM - something that couldn't be googled, cut, and pasted - ie. your translation, not google's translation. Google's translator spits out some pretty garbled stuff generally.
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