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Thread: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    Hey,

    I thought I would start splitting up the 2010 draft rules so that we could better know what we are talking about.

    Here is a place to talk about
    - Communicating with the robots
    - the location of the arena as it pertains to the network
    - Controllers that seam to work best avoiding eliminating the effects of noise on the network
    - How to handle a loss of the network during a match.

    I understand there will be, and probably should be cross talk between the threads, but maybe we can re-organize it all later with some voting or something?

    DB

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    @ DB: Good idea on splitting the thread, thanks.

    @ Fergs: Ok, if the crowd's not going to be a prob, fine by me, just going [EDIT] off of what Ty had posted.
    Last edited by Stobs; 04-29-2010 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    To that end,

    Gary is sending me back the tent so that I can start working on adding a new back panel/zipper. I was thinking of adding a pocket up in the top for hanging a router/xbee. I know there was talk of using metalic paint to block out interfierence...we would have to come up with a way to make sure everyone's signals have some way of getting through...either through wiring things up, or not painting one side.

    any other suggestions?

    DB

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    Dont worry about a pocket, the arena frame next year will have a center cross support to mount things.

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by darkback2 View Post
    To that end,

    Gary is sending me back the tent so that I can start working on adding a new back panel/zipper. I was thinking of adding a pocket up in the top for hanging a router/xbee. I know there was talk of using metalic paint to block out interfierence...we would have to come up with a way to make sure everyone's signals have some way of getting through...either through wiring things up, or not painting one side.

    any other suggestions?

    DB
    For path for the "good" signals, I agree that wiring things up with cat5 or whatever is the best solution. If that is not possible for some reason, it is possible to make a passive microwave repeater by hooking two flat panel antennas together with some heavy coax. One would be inside the tent and the other right next to the driver's laptop.


    I am currently experimenting with small flexible cloth Faraday cages, So far I have tried a milk crate wrapped in black conductive plastic with a resistance of 500ohm per square foot. It reduced wifi by about 20db, but I need to find some more accurate measurement technique to get more exact measurements.

    I will add metallic paint to my list of things to try. I have some conductive mosquito netting cloth on order. The other thing that might work are those thin silver space blankets. I will also get data with one side missing as you suggest.

    The conductive cloth will probably work, but it is quite expensive, and would require sewing, so I might also try some cheaper solutions, like lacing conductive thread at 1/4 wave intervals, or soaking some cloth in silver nitrate

    If the silver nitrate works that would be ideal because then we can just dunk the tent in a bucket of it, no sewing.

    Thanks for making the sturdy tent darkback2, you know its a strong tent when it can simultaneously keep killer robots in, and curious children out.
    Last edited by darrellt; 04-29-2010 at 08:04 PM.

  6. Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    I think you guys did a great job. I hope you got some rest because with all the feed back and energy still floating around it is easy to see Mech Warfare 2010 has not ended. Again thank you for the time that your still putting into it to help bring Mech Warfare to it's next level. It is just awesome to see.

    Having wanted so bad to be there myself I can't help but offer up some of my thoughts. So please don't take my idea as anything but wanting to be a part of something that is just way cool. When it comes down to it if I was able to have made it there I would not have cared less if you used flypaper to have made the arena. Although the mechs may have found them selves in a sticky situation more then once. DOH!

    To address a few issues talked about and in sight of a new arena design being talked about. This is what folks saw to draw them over to Mech WarFare.




    Here are a few conceptual images.

    This would be the outside




    This would be the inside.



    I priced out some hardboard witch cost about $7.00 for a 4' x 8' sheet. With the right framing I believe the cost could be kept down and the facades could be kept fairly modular. I was thinking it could also serve to help make the arena hard core approvable. Tyberius would probable know best. With the talk of shielding I was also thinking it would apply nicely to this stuff and be hidden in between the inside and outside panels. Also a cross support for the targeting sensor could be attached.

    If the frame for the present arena were made more rigid I'm sure the tent could even have the imaging applied to it. I'm thinking hardcore would not be an option.

    Some life sized mech cut outs may attract some attention also. I think the sponsors would also like seeing the signage for their logo's.

    There are a few options for getting the art work on there. Printed, airbrushed or maybe a combination of both. But anyway something to think about. And yes I would love to help with this.

    I'm sure this is not a new idea, but if nothing else hopefully the these images can help to inspire the many thoughts of Mech Warefare 2011.

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    So here is a video of my first Faraday Cage experiment. It is a 1ft cube of Aluminum screen. It did not drop quite as much dB as I had hoped, but 20db is still a 99% reduction. I suspect that the 1ft sq cube might not be big enough to avoid nearfield effects, since the phone is only about 1 wavelength away from the walls.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXABclLddAE"]YouTube- Faraday Cage Expermental Setup[/ame]

    If anyone has experience with microwaves (that does not involve "hot pockets") please let me know what you think. How many db of noise do we need to drop to make a cage worthwhile?
    Last edited by darrellt; 05-05-2010 at 10:19 PM.

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    Great work man! That's a solid start. I can see what Jodie is up to, she would be best to ring in on this, might even know of a cheap way to implement this if need be.

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by Robonaut View Post
    I think you guys did a great job. I hope you got some rest because with all the feed back and energy still floating around it is easy to see Mech Warfare 2010 has not ended. Again thank you for the time that your still putting into it to help bring Mech Warfare to it's next level. It is just awesome to see.

    Having wanted so bad to be there myself I can't help but offer up some of my thoughts. So please don't take my idea as anything but wanting to be a part of something that is just way cool. When it comes down to it if I was able to have made it there I would not have cared less if you used flypaper to have made the arena. Although the mechs may have found them selves in a sticky situation more then once. DOH!

    To address a few issues talked about and in sight of a new arena design being talked about. This is what folks saw to draw them over to Mech WarFare.




    Here are a few conceptual images.

    This would be the outside




    This would be the inside.



    I priced out some hardboard witch cost about $7.00 for a 4' x 8' sheet. With the right framing I believe the cost could be kept down and the facades could be kept fairly modular. I was thinking it could also serve to help make the arena hard core approvable. Tyberius would probable know best. With the talk of shielding I was also thinking it would apply nicely to this stuff and be hidden in between the inside and outside panels. Also a cross support for the targeting sensor could be attached.

    If the frame for the present arena were made more rigid I'm sure the tent could even have the imaging applied to it. I'm thinking hardcore would not be an option.

    Some life sized mech cut outs may attract some attention also. I think the sponsors would also like seeing the signage for their logo's.

    There are a few options for getting the art work on there. Printed, airbrushed or maybe a combination of both. But anyway something to think about. And yes I would love to help with this.

    I'm sure this is not a new idea, but if nothing else hopefully the these images can help to inspire the many thoughts of Mech Warefare 2011.


    This is rock solid btw, we had something like this in mind for next year. The inside bottom of the tent at the very least needs a painted city scape. Fon said he was going to look into printing us some big panels, but we need something that'll stand up to bb fire.

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    Re: Arena Networking/Robot Communication

    Masonite [boards - not siding] will stand up to the plastic bb's w/o a problem and they'll take spray adhesive easily - they won't stand up to metal bb's, but I don't think that they're used in hardcore?

    [EDIT] PS: Maybe these related posts should be relocated to a distinct thread for arena design? <shrugs>
    Last edited by Stobs; 05-06-2010 at 12:07 AM.

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