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Thread: Radar for Mech Warfare?

  1. #21
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    I guess it was when we were first figuring this out...I suggested using spotters. If each participant had a person, sort of a copilot that could see the arena directly, but had a limited number of words they could use, it would eliminate a whole lot of the necessary tech, and solve the problem of robots not being able to find each other, or getting hung up on things that they can't see.


    This would in essence speed up a match, but would eliminate some of the problems.

    One thing would be having it so that the spotters could only tell where the other mech was, and not where it was going. An overhead camera would make it so that sneeking up behind a mech would be virtually impossible, and would increase the likely hood of face on shootouts, especially with quads that can straif.

    Having an overhead camera would fundamentally change the game by eliminating line of sight issues. A pilot could look at a screen and know where the other guy is, and what he is up to. Having spotters or copilots separates this out so that the pilot's responses are not as direct.

    Just thinking aloud.

    DB

  2. #22
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Well, the other reason I like this ceiling camera radar system is that we could use it to determine when a mech has "moved" for scoring purposes... thus taking the guess work out of it.

    -Fergs

  3. #23

    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Sorry, I made an assumption about the network setup.

  4. #24
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    If I am following this correctly the radar proposed is to be used for three things..

    1. determine movement for penalty purpose
    2. allow pilots to easily determine where they are in the arena
    3. allow a pilot to easily track his opponents movement

    Without knowing how the will be implemented or how the information may be relayed to the pilots (video or simply blips on a screen) it seems like the last two would take a bit of strategy out.

    Speaking for myself I felt there were more then enough clues in the arena to determine where I was at all times. First thing I did was memorize the color/shapes of the buildings along with some of the features (cop cars, crashed Humvee). I could combine the visual clues with the amount of possible paths I could move (two paths = corner, three paths = side, four paths = center) and always keep my bearing straight.

  5. Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyberius View Post
    The output display of the proposed mech would just be a grid with the buildings/borders marked, and a blip-dot of where you and your opponent are flashing once every 10-15 seconds or so. Given that radar was standard issue equipment for most mechs in the Battletech universe, I don't see an issue with an implementation of this.

    Another thing to note is that it probably wouldn't be effective against stationary mechs, so you could still employ a bit of stealth.
    In reading this it sounds like you would be using a regular camera and some motion detection to tracks the robots. If so I was thinking about a slightly different set up.

    I got the idea from watching some of Johhny Lee works that he has done with the Wii remote. He made a Wii remote into a head tracker ( amoung other cool things) for 3D environments. The Wii remote is a really cool remote, it has a IR camera and accelerometers in it for a decent price. http://johnnylee.net/projects/wii/

    If you had an IR camera mounted above the arena it could track IR sensors that would be attached to the upper part of the robot pointing upwards. Maybe a few could be used to better detect the robot depend on it's given pose. The IR sensor would be low weight, low cost and would have a small foot print. I would also think radio frequencies would not be an issue it the camera was hard wired.

  6. #26
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    I am with Ryan on this one. There was really only one time when I got lost in the arena, and that more to do with my frame rate dropping to right around 4 or 5 than anything. I think I ended up getting turned around while I couldn't see. Other than that the buildings were different enough that I was able to figure out where I was.

  7. #27
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Upgrayd View Post
    If I am following this correctly the radar proposed is to be used for three things..

    1. determine movement for penalty purpose
    2. allow pilots to easily determine where they are in the arena
    3. allow a pilot to easily track his opponents movement

    Without knowing how the will be implemented or how the information may be relayed to the pilots (video or simply blips on a screen) it seems like the last two would take a bit of strategy out.

    Speaking for myself I felt there were more then enough clues in the arena to determine where I was at all times. First thing I did was memorize the color/shapes of the buildings along with some of the features (cop cars, crashed Humvee). I could combine the visual clues with the amount of possible paths I could move (two paths = corner, three paths = side, four paths = center) and always keep my bearing straight.
    This seems to be a pretty reasonable solution. The only problem I could see would result from a building shielding the IR cameras view.

  8. Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by sthmck View Post
    This seems to be a pretty reasonable solution. The only problem I could see would result from a building shielding the IR cameras view.
    More than one camera?

  9. #29
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    I am willing to sit out next year and official so long as I get to participate in an exhibition match or two. If someone is willing to write a scoring guide I am more than willing to follow it to the best of my abilities. I'm sure Maya would also be willing provided it doesn't interfere with her entering the humanoid competitions.

    Allowing pilots to see the arena fundamentally changes the game.

    Having spotters / copilots and an official solves these problems without fundamentally changing the game, or requiring more crap (I mean stuff) that can go wrong or that we have to worry about.

    Just an offer,
    DB

  10. #30

    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkback2 View Post
    An overhead camera would make it so that sneeking up behind a mech would be virtually impossible, and would increase the likely hood of face on shootouts, especially with quads that can straif.

    Having an overhead camera would fundamentally change the game by eliminating line of sight issues. A pilot could look at a screen and know where the other guy is, and what he is up to.
    DB
    Quote Originally Posted by darkback2 View Post
    Allowing pilots to see the arena fundamentally changes the game.
    DB
    That's what I was thinking. I have to admit I was sort of surprised to hear that you guys had navigating issues right after seeing some of the videos from Robogames with all of those tanks, crashed cars, etc. If there's still problems navigating, we could just put up billboards advertising different things around the arena.

    Having an overhead camera seems like a lot of overkill to figure out where you are. Not only that it looks like we're re-inventing the wheel by doing this, but I will drastically change the game. It will all come down to who has the faster mech, aiming system, and piloting skills. I think that this would kill all of the strategy of the warfare involved. Although I agree that mechs that far in the future would have radar, their enemies would also have a jamming device countering their radar.

    I don't know about you guys, but it seems that this conversation is running in circles and we should just leave it the way it is for now. Maybe we could do some testing of this satellite imaging during the exhibition matches at Robogames. But for now I think we can leave the fundamental gameplay the way it is. As more competitors join and as time passes, there will be more and more advances on all the upgrades our mechs have currently. Sooner or later, someone will find out a way to incorporate mechdar that everyone can use.

    Let's just leave it the way it is and not cheat the process.

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