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Thread: Radar for Mech Warfare?

  1. #31
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSK Mech Commander View Post
    That's what I was thinking. I have to admit I was sort of surprised to hear that you guys had navigating issues right after seeing some of the videos from Robogames with all of those tanks, crashed cars, etc. If there's still problems navigating, we could just put up billboards advertising different things around the arena.

    Having an overhead camera seems like a lot of overkill to figure out where you are. Not only that it looks like we're re-inventing the wheel by doing this, but I will drastically change the game. It will all come down to who has the faster mech, aiming system, and piloting skills. I think that this would kill all of the strategy of the warfare involved. Although I agree that mechs that far in the future would have radar, their enemies would also have a jamming device countering their radar.

    I don't know about you guys, but it seems that this conversation is running in circles and we should just leave it the way it is for now. Maybe we could do some testing of this satellite imaging during the exhibition matches at Robogames. But for now I think we can leave the fundamental gameplay the way it is. As more competitors join and as time passes, there will be more and more advances on all the upgrades our mechs have currently. Sooner or later, someone will find out a way to incorporate mechdar that everyone can use.

    Let's just leave it the way it is and not cheat the process.
    I guess this means we will being seeing you next year at robogames?

  2. #32

    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by sthmck View Post
    I guess this means we will being seeing you next year at robogames?
    I certainly hope so. This time I'll be prepared for April. I couldn't compete in this year's Robogames because I thought that it would be conducted in June again. The change in months, unfortunately, wrecked my plans and postponed them.

    I spent a lot of time last summer trying to scrape up enough cash to buy a base for a mech. Now that I'm done with the huge purchases (for now), I will be able to spend a lot more time on outfitting my Phoenix with the necessaries and slightly edit the code to suit my preferences.

  3. #33
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSK Mech Commander View Post
    .... But for now I think we can leave the fundamental gameplay the way it is. As more competitors join and as time passes, there will be more and more advances on all the upgrades our mechs have currently. Sooner or later, someone will find out a way to incorporate mechdar that everyone can use.

    Let's just leave it the way it is and not cheat the process.
    The point of my original post. A "Gee, wow! That's cool" element to add to your GUI/HUD.

  4. #34
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    This thread is here for discussion, nothing is being changed within the game rules without some serious thought towards it.

    A few things I want to add if we were to try something like this: It wouldn't be a straight up video feed. It would likely end up being a 64x64 block output that shows border, buildings, and occasionally (once every 10-30 seconds) a blip of each mech. Not quite the same thing as a continuous video feed.

    We are not going to have 'spotters'. In fact, we're going to be setting rules in place that prevent ANY communication to the pilots from bystanders outside of a ref calling out approved feedback (such as, "Odin, you have left the square your weapons are hot, etc). Not meaning to sound like a hard ass on this, but we want to focus on improving technology here rather than people yelling info back and forth.

    Another thing we might end up looking into once again is MechDAR, which is currently 100% allowed per the current rules. This might help considerably with piloting to the point where we wouldn't need feedback from an external radar system.

  5. #35
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Back on topic. Thank you!

  6. #36

    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyberius View Post
    This thread is here for discussion, nothing is being changed within the game rules without some serious thought towards it.

    A few things I want to add if we were to try something like this: It wouldn't be a straight up video feed. It would likely end up being a 64x64 block output that shows border, buildings, and occasionally (once every 10-30 seconds) a blip of each mech. Not quite the same thing as a continuous video feed.

    Another thing we might end up looking into once again is MechDAR, which is currently 100% allowed per the current rules. This might help considerably with piloting to the point where we wouldn't need feedback from an external radar system.
    Of course, I'm just participating in said discussion. If I'm not, please correct me.

    Although it wouldn't be a straight up continuous stream of video, it would dramatically change the game without any individual prowess required to do so. But considering the speed of the mechs, if you were going to do this, you might want to make the blip interval 30 or 45 seconds long. This way it won't be a clear feed of what your opponent is up to, but you also get a view of where you forgot to look.

    Either we can have the interval blip, or each pilot can have three "peeks" which allow him/her to get a spy satellite image. I think limited peeks might be better than the interval blips, but I'm not sure.

  7. #37
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSK Mech Commander View Post
    Of course, I'm just participating in said discussion. If I'm not, please correct me.

    Although it wouldn't be a straight up continuous stream of video, it would dramatically change the game without any individual prowess required to do so. But considering the speed of the mechs, if you were going to do this, you might want to make the blip interval 30 or 45 seconds long. This way it won't be a clear feed of what your opponent is up to, but you also get a view of where you forgot to look.

    Either we can have the interval blip, or each pilot can have three "peeks" which allow him/her to get a spy satellite image. I think limited peeks might be better than the interval blips, but I'm not sure.
    Was a general statement, not directed at you. I was just trying to explain that we're opening it up for discussion rather than telling people it was something that was without a doubt going to be implemented.

    The more I think about it the more I might want to shy away from universal radar and move towards onboard radar for obstacle avoidance, such as mechdar.

  8. #38
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    With 2-on-2 matches, universal radar could be set it up so we could maintain a active picture of where our team mate is, so that we could coordinated our strategy etc.. Something that couldn't be done with Onboard mechdar very easily (if at all). This is very much in the realm of the BattleTech Board game, and Mech Warrior series of video games.

    Thanks, Connor

  9. #39
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    Here is a thought. I really like the idea of an overhead "satellite" view, but of course you could see where the opponent is. How about using Augmented Reality to not only provide a cool looking terrain but also show/hide each mech depending on the person's view. That might sound confusing at first, but here is a video to help:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNu4CluFOcw"]YouTube- ARhrrrr - An augmented reality shooter[/ame]

    Player 1 could see his mech, and the entire map, but the AR view would block out Player 2.
    Player 2 could see his mech, and the entire map, but the AR view would block out Player 1.

    By putting AR markers on the top of each mech, you could easily keep track of each mech.

    (FYI, in the video above, it is understood that the camera would be fixed above the arena)

  10. #40
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    Re: Radar for Mech Warfare?

    There is a complicating factor with trying to use a single AR camera. If you assume the mechs are 1ft tall, and the buildings are two feet tall, and you will tolerate a 2 inch view shadow from the buildings, the camera would have to be at least 16ft high. Some of the buildings are taller then this, esp with the billboards etc, so perhaps even higher. This makes an easy to set up, secure mounting solution somewhat tricky. Also you would need a pretty high resolution cam to pick up an AR marker at 16+ feet away.

    I was thinking a tracking system could be used for automating the "must not stand still for more then 20 seconds rule", but their are a lot of things you can do if you know the XY pos of each mech. If the camera mounting problem could be solved I could run the video through processing and have a blocky mechdar type display fairly easily, but l think mounting the camera could be a pain.

    I personally did not find getting lost to be much of a problem, but my mech never walked very far or very fast, and it had a compass.
    Last edited by darrellt; 05-03-2010 at 09:25 PM.

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